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From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:27:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoStuart,
> I have a question. (by the way, my keyboard is messed up if anything is s
> paced w eird) In or ches tra, we played a piece and the part was written
> for Clarinette in B. And the guy played on his Bb, no trans pos ing. How
> come it s ays B if it's meant for the Bb?In Germany, H meant B Natural, because ""B" meant Bb.
Just like Es means Eb.Tom
> Stuart
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:17:17 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Horns FS!
My apologies: it wasn't until I prepared the digests for the archive
just now that I realized that Peter hadn't posted the horns for sale
to the contrabass list (they were sent to me for posting as
classifieds, and also to the sarrusophone list). Thus, the
contrabass sax was fanning flames that had not yet ignited. If you
know what I mean...Anyway, if you now check the Classified page, you'll see that
Peter is selling a huge number of instruments (or is that a number of
huge instruments?), including sarrusophones (soprano, alto, tenor,
bari, bass, contrabass), reed contrabass, clarinets (bass, contralto,
contrabass), flutes (alto, bass), guitarron, and others. Someone
save me the bari - I need it for the quartet I'm writing... ;-)Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:05:02 -0400
From: michael c grogg
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino> come it s ays B if it's meant for the Bb?
> In Germany, H meant B Natural, because ""B" meant Bb.
> Just like Es means Eb.Actually, Es means E natural, Es dur means Eb.
Makes a major difference when you stuff the wrong crook in your hand horn. :-)
mg
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:47:53 -0500
From: Topper
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 04:10 PM -0800 7/7/00, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>At 2:57 PM -0400 7/7/00, Feodor wrote:
>>It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and European B is called
>>Bb...
>
>Mon dieu! L'"Europe" n'est pas tout à fait la même chose que
>l'Allemagne! Les français, je crois, auriait quelque chose à dire de
>cette arrogance. Les italiens, aussi. Espagnols. Grecques...
>Si-b ... sorry.
...and there is no such thing as a soprano clarinet or sax above the
first soprano (once a soprano range is called in a key the next
designation an octave up is recapitulated) they are called
sopraninino as in pianisisimo.That's it.
---------------------------------------------------------From: Fmmck
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:10:43 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Clarinets in odd keys...In a message dated 7/7/00 3:17:57 PM, gdgreen writes:
<< if one had clarinets in C, B, and Bb one could
play essentially anything. As more keys were added, it became more
practical to play in remote key signatures >>Grant-
Wasn't this also related to the older music scale(s) prior to the one we
currently use? It is my understanding that an earlier scale had notes spaced
in such a way that instruments of one key could play between the notes of
instruments in other keys. In such a system, it would seem impossible to
transpose unless "transposition keys" were added. (Or is that what you just
said?)Fred McKenzie
MMB
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:38:32 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 7:05 PM -0400 7/7/00, michael c grogg wrote:
> > In Germany, H meant B Natural, because ""B" meant Bb.
>> Just like Es means Eb.
>
>Actually, Es means E natural, Es dur means Eb.Actually, Es means E flat; Es dur means E flat major.
The Germans on this list will confirm that.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:19:37 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Clarinets in odd keys...>In a message dated 7/7/00 3:17:57 PM, gdgreen writes:
>
><< if one had clarinets in C, B, and Bb one could
>play essentially anything. As more keys were added, it became more
>practical to play in remote key signatures >>
>
>Grant-First of all, this isn't quite right. Originally, clarinets were
quite small, and the most popular size was the D. The C and Bb were
added (at first as corps de rechange) for handling other keys (this
may be what you were remembering), and then when the high D cl. lost
favor, the A cl. was added so that the sharps would still be covered.
The clarinet in B natural was an extreme rarity.>Wasn't this also related to the older music scale(s) prior to the one we
>currently use? It is my understanding that an earlier scale had notes spaced
>in such a way that instruments of one key could play between the notes of
>instruments in other keys. In such a system, it would seem impossible to
>transpose unless "transposition keys" were added. (Or is that what you just
>said?)
>
>Fred McKenzieI'm afraid this is just gibberish. In any event, our current scales
were all very solidly established prior to the invention of the clarinet.--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat Jul 08 12:24:07 2000
From: Opusnandy
Subject: Re: [CB] High Clarinets, Clarinet in B and clarinet in GAs for clarinets in G (also known as grande clarinette) Jon Carreira writes
"actually, I was refering not to the older clarinette d'amour, but to a
modern instrument, most often found in Germany. For some reason it is often
used in Klezmer bands over there."
Jon do you know of any Klezmer recordings using this instrument? I know of
Turkish music recordings using it but I didn't know that it was used in
Klezmer too.I may have misspoken when I said it was "often" used in Klezmer music. I know of no recordings of the G mezzo-soprano clarinet, but the one time I saw one being played it was in a Klezmer band in California (that also had a contrabass balalika (keeping relevent here)). It was metal, like the Turkish ones. I guess I assumed that it was a common practice to use them. I also asumed Germany was their country of popularity because the couple of companies I know of that manufacture these instruments are located in Germany.
Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 17:43:30 +0100
From: David Taylor
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoIn message <396640CA.D054E35B>, Feodor writes
>Andrew Stiller wrote:
>> At 2:57 PM -0400 7/7/00, Feodor wrote:
>> >It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and European B is called
>> >Bb...
>>
>> Mon dieu! L'"Europe" n'est pas tout ? fait la m?me chose que
>> l'Allemagne! Les fran?ais, je crois, auriait quelque chose ? dire de
>> cette arrogance. Les italiens, aussi. Espagnols. Grecques...
>
>Par moi, l'Europe est la Russie (mais, l'?tat, pourtant, n'est pas moi...:):)
>D'accord, mon ami, je crois que en France, en Italie et en Espagne l'H est si, le
>B est si-bemol et cetera. D'ailleurs, les Russes utilisent les deux formes: 'si'
>et 'H'...
>Y a-t-il quelqu'un de Gr?ce ici? Quelles lettres utilisent-elles?
>
>Feodore,
>un gar?on europ?enSprechen sie Deutsch? Ma Francais et tres tres merde.
Dave Taylor
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 16:44:51 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
>In message <396640CA.D054E35B>, Feodor writes
>>Andrew Stiller wrote:
>>> At 2:57 PM -0400 7/7/00, Feodor wrote:
>>> >It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and
>>>European B is called
>>> >Bb...
>>>
>>> Mon dieu! L'"Europe" n'est pas tout ? fait la m?me chose que
> >> l'Allemagne!...and Feodore wrote:
> >Par moi, l'Europe est la Russie...
>Sprechen sie Deutsch? Ma Francais et tres tres merde.
>
>Dave TaylorI was complaining of the arrogance of saying the H/B convention was
"the European method" of pitch naming when in fact it is limited to
Germany and a few neighboring countries. By writing in French I was
calling attention to one of the chief European countries that does
not use the H/B--and the one that would probably take the greatest
umbrage at being left out of "Europe."Feodore wrote to point out that in Russia, both methods are used.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
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