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Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:07:47 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino>At 11:08 AM -0500 7/6/00, Topper wrote:
>...like why is the Eb contra (bass) called a "Contraalto" in vocal
>perspectives contra does not mean an octave lower it more refers to
>the lower counterpoint in a group of voices...For the same reason they call a "cheesburger" that even though it did
not originate in the city of Cheeseburg.--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:14:49 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 12:24 PM -0600 7/6/00, Spike Spiegel wrote:
>Although I myself have not seen one, the proper Sopranino clarinet is
>keyed in Ab. There is little written for it - typically, you will see it
>in scores for woodwind choir or clarinet choir, and prominently used by an
>arranger/composer by the name of Lucient Calliet. All of his woodwind
>choir works (well, most of them, anyway) will contain parts for the rare
>stick...Not to continue belaboring the wrong end of the pitch spectrum, but I
couldn't resist adding a coupla points.1) I've not only seen an Ab, but played on it. Lots of fun. Should
be more of them around here.2) It's only rare in some countries. In Italy whole sections of them
appear in Carabinieri bands, where they play the first violin parts
of opera transcriptions. There are a number of other (mostly
southern) European countries where the instrument is commonplace.--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:23:18 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 1:20 PM -0600 7/6/00, Spike Spiegel wrote:
> > F and Eb Alto
>
>I've actually never heard of an F alto clarinet...except from Dan Leeson,
>who insists that all Basset Horns today, with the exception of Selmer's,
>are really nothing more than Alto's with low C extensions in the key of F.
>In many ways he's right...to an extent. I still call them basset horns
>anyways.I had a long e-mail exchange with a French clarinettist about this,
and it all depends on how you define a basset horn. A lot of texts
say a bassett horn differs from an alto clarinet in having a narrower
scale: the mouthpiece must be interchangeable with that of the
regular clarinet, so it has a bore no wider than that of a BbCl.
Under this definition, then, any clarinet in F or Eb with a
proportionally wide bore is an alto clarinet, not a basset horn. My
French correspondent however informs me that in France, the bore
width makes no never-mind: if it has basset keys, it's a cor de
basset, and if it doesn't it's a clarinette alto en fa. This latter,
BTW, is the inst. Stravinsky wrote for in the original version of his
*Symphonies of Wind Instruments.*--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 00:39:55 +0200
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] clarinets galore----------
>From: Grant Green
>> > F and Eb Alto
>>
>>I've actually never heard of an F alto clarinet...except from Dan Leeson,
>>who insists that all Basset Horns today, with the exception of Selmer's,
>>are really nothing more than Alto's with low C extensions in the key of F.
>>In many ways he's right...to an extent. I still call them basset horns
>>anyways.
>
> One of the alto players in our clarinet choir actually has (and
> performed on) an F alto. Range to low Eb (written). Used it to
> cover the basset horn part on one of the works we played (he brought
> both F and Eb altos). Didn't get a chance to talk to him about it.
>
> GrantNot having any documentation at hand, I am pretty sure that the Buffet
basset horn of to day is distinguishing itself from the alto clarinet by two
features:A slightly narrower bore.
Range to low C (written).
Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:53:21 -0500
From: Peter Koval
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
Grant Green wrote:
> >I'm looking for a used Selmer sopranino.
> >Any suggestions??
>
> I know Selmer made (and makes) sopraninos, but I've never seen one or
> heard of a second-hand Selmer sopranino for sale... WW&BW carries
> them new...
>
> Grant
>
>
I didn't see any Selmer sopranino saxes at this site (could have been me!) How much do they sell for new? Peter Kovalpkoval
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:18:42 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino> > I know Selmer made (and makes) sopraninos, but I've never seen one or
> > heard of a second-hand Selmer sopranino for sale... WW&BW carries
> > them new...
> >
> > Grant
> >
> > I didn't see any Selmer sopranino saxes at this site (could have been
> > me!) How much do they sell for new? Peter Koval
>
>pkovalThere are a number of horns that they carry, but that do not show up
in the catalog. If I'm considering an instrument, I just telephone
them and ask what their price (and availability) is. Checking by
phone, the current asking price is US$3750 for the Selmer Paris
SA80II sopranino (apparently they have not started making series III
sopraninos yet).Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 18:46:26 -0500
From: Peter Koval
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoGrant Green wrote:
> > > I know Selmer made (and makes) sopraninos, but I've never seen one or
> > > heard of a second-hand Selmer sopranino for sale... WW&BW carries
> > > them new...
> > >
> > > Grant
> > >
> > > I didn't see any Selmer sopranino saxes at this site (could have been
> > > me!) How much do they sell for new? Peter Koval
>
> There are a number of horns that they carry, but that do not show up
> in the catalog. If I'm considering an instrument, I just telephone
> them and ask what their price (and availability) is. Checking by
> phone, the current asking price is US$3750 for the Selmer Paris
> SA80II sopranino (apparently they have not started making series III
> sopraninos yet).
>
> GrantThanks for the info, Grant. The reason I asked is that I have a Selmer Eb
sopranino sax dating from the late 1970s/early 1980s which I am considering
selling. It is marked Heni Selmer Paris, serial no. N245600. Keys to high
Eb. Lacquered brass finish. It is hardly used and looks virtually
brand-new. Comes with mouthpiece, reeds, cleaner, and original case in very
good condition.(I should have posted this to your classified "column", but
the reference seems apropos here!). If the new price is $3750.00 then I
feel justified in asking for offers around $2500.00Regards, Peter Koval
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Colin Harris"
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:46:23 +0100
Subject: RE: [CB] Selmer sopraninoOn Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Colin Harris wrote:
> ... and a bass clarinet in C. Mozart also wrote for Clarinet in B,
> although I don't know whether the instrument was ever built.To clarify - Mozart wrote for clarinet in H (B natural) in one of his
operas, and Liszt wrote for bass clarinet in C for one of his tone poems
(Mazeppa I think). Whether there is such an instrument remains to be seen.---------------------------------------------------------
From: Francis Firth
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:06:21 +0100
Subject: [CB] High Clarinets, Clarinet in B and clarinet in GAndrew Stiller writes:
"Finally, just to be a total completist, there was for a short while a clarinet in piccolo Bb--a novelty instrument known as the "red hot fountain pen."Actually the red hot Fountain pen is pitched in about C an octave above the C clarinet.
If you want to hear what it sounds like then you need to listen to some the
bass saxophone player, ASdrian Rollini's, solos. I know that he plays solos
on it in one or two of his recordings with Eddie Lang's Blue Four.
Piccolo clarinets in high Bb and high A have existed since at least the
early 19th century and are still advertised as being made by Orsi of
Milan.The piccolo clarinet in Ab has an unaccompanied solo Hommage a
Stravinsky written for it by Terje Lerstad (also a contrabass clarinettist
so there is a connection). He has also recorded a piece on CD with solos for
it (Hoemsnes, Bjørn: Patchwork for Ab picc/Ccl with tape delay and 2
percussion. Aurora, 1988, NCD-B 4952 (originally released Phillips,
411080-1). It has been used in jazz (Holz fur Europa. Hans Koch, Wolfgang
Fuchs & Peter van Bergen, FMP CD84, 1997) and also in one or two classical
morchestral scores.The clarinet in B did not exist, so far as I know, as a separate instrument.
There does exist, however, a clarinet in C with a corps de rechange
lengthening it into B. This was also common for Bb clarinets to have a corps
de rechange to lower them into A. For a booklet about this clarinet in C/B
see: Jeltsch, Jean: La Clarinette a Six Cles: Un Jeu de Clarinettes du
facteur Parisien Jean-Jacques Baumann. Courlay: J.M. Fuzeau, 1997.As for clarinets in G (also known as grande clarinette) Jon Carreira writes
"actually, I was refering not to the older clarinette d'amour, but to a
modern instrument, most often found in Germany. For some reason it is often
used in Klezmer bands over there."
Jon do you know of any Klezmer recordings using this instrument? I know of
Turkish music recordings using it but I didn't know that it was used in
Klezmer too.
Francis Firth---------------------------------------------------------
From: Francis Firth
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:08:50 +0100
Subject: [CB] Octobass Flute RecordingI thought that the following might be of interest to members of the list.
I have recently purchased a CD with wotks by Iancu Dumitrescu and Ana-Maria
Avram. Among various pieces for flute and percussion the one to look out for
is Mnemosyne for cotobass flute, bass saxophone, chamber ensemble and
electronics. The flute soloist is Patrice Bocquillon.
Like most of Dunitrescu's music this works around harmonics, notes and their
overtones.
The octobass flute is difficult to distinguish but the saxophone (baritone
not contrabass or bass as 2 websites state) is clearly audible.
I bought it from forced exposure at:
http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels/artgallery.france.html
Happy hunting with this if you think it worth it.
Francis Firth
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:51:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] High Clarinets, Clarinet in B and clarinet in GFrancis,
----- Original Message ----- "
> Actually the red hot Fountain pen is pitched in about C an octave above the
> C clarinet.Yikes!!!
Having played an Ab Piccolo on occassion, I can't imagine being able to get
my fingers close enough together for a C Picc. How long (short) is the C
Picc?Thanks,
Tom'
---------------------------------------------------------
From: CoolStu67
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:28:41 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino<<
To clarify - Mozart wrote for clarinet in H (B natural) in one of his
operas, and Liszt wrote for bass clarinet in C for one of his tone poems
(Mazeppa I think). Whether there is such an instrument remains to be seen.
>>
I have a question. (by the way, my keyboard is messed up if anything is spaced weird) In orchestra, we played a piece and the part was written for Clarinette in B. And the guy played on his Bb, no transposing. How come it says B if it's meant for the Bb?Stuart
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 19:58:51 +0200
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoDo you really want the full story of the differences in nomenclatura between
continental europe and the English spoken world?Then someone surely will unload it on you!
The brief version is
Bb = B
Bnatural = HKlaus
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:57:23 -0400
From: Feodor
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and European B is called Bb...
So, the part was printed in Europe for B clarinet (American Bb clarinet). There
is no need for transposition, but for translation :)Feodor
> I have a question. (by the way, my keyboard is messed up if anything is s
> paced w eird) In or ches tra, we played a piece and the part w a s w ritten
> for Clarinette in B. And the guy played on his Bb, no trans pos ing. How
> come it s ays B if it's meant for the Bb?
>
> S tuart---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:07:51 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] More horns FS
Further fanning the flames, Peter has also now posted his Eb
contrabass saxophone for sale, along with a few other horns (alto and
bass trumpets, english horn, etc.) - more may follow. All of the
current offerings are listed on the Classified page
(http://www.contrabass.com/pages/classified.html).Enjoy,
Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:59 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Clarinets in odd keys...
My recollection is that the early soprano clarinets were made in a
variety of keys. It was difficult to play in every key on one
instrument: however, if one had clarinets in C, B, and Bb one could
play essentially anything. As more keys were added, it became more
practical to play in remote key signatures, and we eventually adopted
Bb and A as the most-used varieties. Now, let's see if I can
remember the source of that information...Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:10:07 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 2:57 PM -0400 7/7/00, Feodor wrote:
>It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and European B is called
>Bb...Mon dieu! L'"Europe" n'est pas tout =E0 fait la m=EAme chose que
l'Allemagne! Les fran=E7ais, je crois, auriait quelque chose =E0 dire de
cette arrogance. Les italiens, aussi. Espagnols. Grecques...--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:38:03 -0700
From: "Chuck Guzis"
Subject: [CB] Selmer Mk VI Bass FS listingDear list,
I just caught a listing for a Mk VI Bass for sale at:
http://www.vipenterprises.com/music/messages/3900.html
I'm not a sax player, but I have been told that there's something mystical about the Mk VI's.
Cheers,
Chuck
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:42:50 -0400
From: Feodor
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
Andrew Stiller wrote:
> At 2:57 PM -0400 7/7/00, Feodor wrote:
> >It's quite simple. In the USA European H is called B and European B is called
> >Bb...
>
> Mon dieu! L'"Europe" n'est pas tout ? fait la m?me chose que
> l'Allemagne! Les fran?ais, je crois, auriait quelque chose ? dire de
> cette arrogance. Les italiens, aussi. Espagnols. Grecques...Par moi, l'Europe est la Russie (mais, l'?tat, pourtant, n'est pas moi...:):)
D'accord, mon ami, je crois que en France, en Italie et en Espagne l'H est si, le
B est si-bemol et cetera. D'ailleurs, les Russes utilisent les deux formes: 'si'
et 'H'...
Y a-t-il quelqu'un de Gr?ce ici? Quelles lettres utilisent-elles?Feodore,
un gar?on europ?en***End of Contrabass Digest***
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