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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:41:02 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino>I'm looking for a used Selmer sopranino.
>Any suggestions??I know Selmer made (and makes) sopraninos, but I've never seen one or
heard of a second-hand Selmer sopranino for sale... WW&BW carries
them new...Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 01:20:05 +0200
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: [CB] Cherveny once morehttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370351923
This is another sample of the large throat/no flare approach to tuba making.
Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------From: Fmmck
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 23:24:00 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
In a message dated 7/5/00 5:48:18 PM, gdgreen writes:
<< I've never seen one or heard of a second-hand Selmer sopranino for sale... >>
Grant-
There is currently a "Buffet Crampon R13 Eb sopranino clarinet" listed on
E-Bay. There is nothing of a known size shown in the photos for comparison,
but I suspect it is actually an Eb Soprano Clarinet. What key would the
Sopranino Clarinet be in? About how long would it be?Fred McKenzie
MMB
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 23:39:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoFred,
> Grant-
> There is currently a "Buffet Crampon R13 Eb sopranino clarinet" listed on
> E-Bay. There is nothing of a known size shown in the photos for comparison,
> but I suspect it is actually an Eb Soprano Clarinet. What key would the
> Sopranino Clarinet be in? About how long would it be?
>
Some call the Eb Clarinet, a Soprano, & others call it the Sopranino (to be
in-line with Saxes, Trombones, Flutes, etc). The Bb (& C's & A's) are called
Sopranos, hence the confusion. There is also a Piccolo Clarinet in high Ab,
that I've seen referenced as Ab Sopranino, too. So go figure.Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
From: CoolStu67
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 23:43:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino<<
What key would the
Sopranino Clarinet be in? About how long would it be?
>>A-flat. 14"
Stuart
PS- Leblanc makes a sopranino, for about the cost of their low C bass (I think).
---------------------------------------------------------From: Opusnandy
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 00:28:36 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoThe clarinet nomenclature I've always been aware of has been:
- Ab Piccolo
- G, F, Eb, and D Sopraninos
- C, Bb, and A Sopranos
- A Basset
- G Mezzo-Soprano
- F Basset Horn
- F and Eb Alto
- Bb and A Bass
- Eb Contra-Alto
- Bb Contrabass
- Eb Octo-Contra-Alto
- Bb Octo-Contra-Bass
Like Dennis Miller, I could be wrong. Either way, the clarinet on E-Bay I'm
sure is your run-of-the-mill Eb Clarinet.Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:41:02 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino
>The clarinet nomenclature I've always been aware of has been:
>Ab Piccolo
>G, F, Eb, and D Sopraninos
>C, Bb, and A Sopranos
>A Basset
>G Mezzo-Soprano
>F Basset Horn
>F and Eb Alto
>Bb and A Bass
>Eb Contra-Alto
>Bb Contrabass
>Eb Octo-Contra-Alto
>Bb Octo-Contra-BassThis is indeed the most common terminology, except that the alto
clarinet in G, here called "mezzo-soprano" is actually called
"clarinette d'amour" in every reference I've ever seen. Certainly
that is what it was called when it was a living instrument. Also it
has to be understood that the basset cl. in A (there is also one in
Bb, BTW) is so called because it is extended down to the low C
written, not just an alternative designation for the A clarinet in
general. Finally, just to be a total completist, there was for a
short while a clarinet in piccolo Bb--a novelty instrument known as
the "red hot fountain pen."Anybody ever seen one?
And one more thing: AFAIK the Bcl in A never existed, though
composers scored it nonetheless. Does anyone know for sure of a Bcl
in A ever being manufactured?
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:08:52 -0400
From: Feodor
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAndrew Stiller wrote:
> >The clarinet nomenclature I've always been aware of has been:
> >Ab Piccolo
> >G, F, Eb, and D Sopraninos
> >C, Bb, and A Sopranos
> >A Basset
> >G Mezzo-Soprano
> >F Basset Horn
> >F and Eb Alto
> >Bb and A Bass
> >Eb Contra-Alto
> >Bb Contrabass
> >Eb Octo-Contra-Alto
> >Bb Octo-Contra-Bass
>
> This is indeed the most common terminology, except that the alto
> clarinet in G, here called "mezzo-soprano" is actually called
> "clarinette d'amour" in every reference I've ever seen.I have seen lots of Turkish metal G clarinets (Ahlbert system)
> Finally, just to be a total completist, there was for a
> short while a clarinet in piccolo Bb--a novelty instrument known as
> the "red hot fountain pen."There is one on display in the Metropolitan Museum, NY. Does anybody
manufactures them now?> Anybody ever seen one?
>
> And one more thing: AFAIK the Bcl in A never existed,Hm....
> though
> composers scored it nonetheless. Does anyone know for sure of a Bcl
> in A ever being manufactured?Bass in A was in use in Russia and still can be special ordered from
Selmer (I believe)... I have seen one back in Russia. Ahlbert system, of
course.Yours,
Feodor Tereshchenko
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Colin Harris"
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:40:20 +0100
Subject: RE: [CB] Selmer sopranino... and a bass clarinet in C. Mozart also wrote for Clarinet in B, although
I don't know whether the instrument was ever built.---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:50:50 -0400
From: Feodor
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoColin Harris wrote:
> ... and a bass clarinet in C. Mozart also wrote for Clarinet in B, although
> I don't know whether the instrument was ever built.He wrote for clarinet in H (B-natural in US). Yes, this clarinet existed....
BTW, where does he write for bass in C?Feodor Tereshchenko
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Price, David"
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:27:05 +0100
Subject: RE: [CB] Selmer sopranino....... all fascinating reading ....... but aren't we at the wrong end of
the audible spectrum here for what started off as a Contrabass discussion
list?Dave.
(F above middle C on a Tuba is the nearest I can get to 'Sopranino'
anything)
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:08:32 -0500
From: Topper
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoAt 11:39 PM -0500 7/5/00, Tom Izzo wrote:
>Fred,
>> Grant-
>> There is currently a "Buffet Crampon R13 Eb sopranino clarinet" listed on
>> E-Bay. There is nothing of a known size shown in the photos for comparison,
>> but I suspect it is actually an Eb Soprano Clarinet. What key would the
>> Sopranino Clarinet be in? About how long would it be?
>>
>Some call the Eb Clarinet, a Soprano, & others call it the Sopranino (to be
>in-line with Saxes, Trombones, Flutes, etc). The Bb (& C's & A's) are called
>Sopranos, hence the confusion. There is also a Piccolo Clarinet in high Ab,
>that I've seen referenced as Ab Sopranino, too. So go figure.
>
>TomHmmm... and I have heard that anything above E--flat referenced as Sopraninino,
or even sopranini apart from sopranino (which linguistically makes
sense; the first being the feminine voice of the sopranino as even
adding a stepo as in ni-ni-no vs. ni-no; and the later being two ni'
and no "no"...:-)...like why is the Eb contra (bass) called a "Contraalto" in vocal
perspectives contra does not mean an octave lower it more refers to
the lower counterpoint in a group of voices...perhaps some of the confusion is in what to call an instrument and
what designation is given to which part(s) and in their respective
sections.., not to mention which piece and section thereof..
yes confusing...
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:08:43 -0700
From: "Chuck Guzis"
Subject: RE: [CB] Selmer sopraninoOn 7/6/00, Price, David wrote:
>...... all fascinating reading ....... but aren't we at the wrong end of
>the audible spectrum here for what started off as a Contrabass discussion
>list?Let's see, the hot fountain pen (can't recall it ever having been called a "red hot") was a trademark of Adrian Rollini (as was the Goofus). But Rollini was primarily a bass sax player (with Joe Venuti and many other groups).
So there is a relationship--sort of.
Cheers,
Chuck---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Mumpower
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopranino> This is indeed the most common terminology, except that the alto
> clarinet in G, here called "mezzo-soprano" is actually called
> "clarinette d'amour" in every reference I've ever seen. Certainly
> that is what it was called when it was a living instrument.Anthony Baines' Woodwind Instruments and their History mentions (p. 304)
that the clarinette d'amour was usually pitched "in G or Ab, thus providing
for clef-transposition a third below the Bb and C clarinets respectively,
but some were made in F."FWIW, Baines seems also to claim that, at least before the 20th century,
that the Basset Horn was pitched in F, not A. Perhaps you're thinking of the
Basset Clarinet, which seems to be an invention of the last 50 years?> And one more thing: AFAIK the Bcl in A never existed, though
> composers scored it nonetheless. Does anyone know for sure of a Bcl
> in A ever being manufactured?>From Baines, p. 129:
"For orchestral work, however, a bass clarinet needs a low Eb key in order
to reach the bottom E of parts written for the virtually extinct bass
clarinet in A. [...] (Only a few German opera houses still possess an A
bass clarinet, and even so the odds are that the player will play
everything on tbe Bb, as is done elsewhere.)"So, this is not a specific citation, but if you trust Baines, then yes.
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:24:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: Spike Spiegel
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoOn Wed, 5 Jul 2000 Fmmck wrote:
> There is currently a "Buffet Crampon R13 Eb sopranino clarinet" listed on
> E-Bay. There is nothing of a known size shown in the photos for comparison,
> but I suspect it is actually an Eb Soprano Clarinet.This is correct - a size comparision wouldn't be necessary (except
perhaps to define for certain that it is indeed an Eb and not a D, which,
like the A and Bb, are hardly distinguishable alone). Eb's generally have
a single middle joint, rather than an upper and lower joint, and the
barrel will (when viewed in a two-dimensional image, naturally) take on
more of a squarish look, than a rectangularish look that the Bb or A has.
The Eb/Bb vent key that is between the first and second fingers of the
left hand will also be offset - on Bb/A, there is enough room between the
fingers for that key to line up with the rest of the fingers. This is not
the case with an Eb/D, the fingers are too close together, and the key
must be moved out of alignment from the fingers.> What key would the Sopranino Clarinet be in? About how long would it
> be?Although I myself have not seen one, the proper Sopranino clarinet is
keyed in Ab. There is little written for it - typically, you will see it
in scores for woodwind choir or clarinet choir, and prominently used by an
arranger/composer by the name of Lucient Calliet. All of his woodwind
choir works (well, most of them, anyway) will contain parts for the rare
stick...J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"Never put passion before principle. Even when win, you lose."
-Miyagi-san, KKpt.II
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:20:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: Spike Spiegel
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoOn Thu, 6 Jul 2000 Opusnandy wrote:
> The clarinet nomenclature I've always been aware of has been:
> Ab PiccoloThat's quite common as well as Sopranino.
> G, F, Eb, and D Sopraninos
The Eb and D are called sopraninos by nonclarinetists, generally. Most
degree holding or persuing clarinetists refer to the Eb/D instrument as
soprano instruments.> C, Bb, and A Sopranos
> A BassetYay for the A basset. I want one I want one I want one!
> G Mezzo-Soprano
Actually, the clarinet d'amour. Much like the oboe d'amour, but with less
appeal. (Personally, I think the oboe d'amour kicks all sorts of...uh,
aspartame. Especially in tone and intonation. Who cares if the range is
already covered by both the oboe and cor anglais! Bring the dang thing
back!)> F Basset Horn
Yay for Basset horn!
> F and Eb Alto
I've actually never heard of an F alto clarinet...except from Dan Leeson,
who insists that all Basset Horns today, with the exception of Selmer's,
are really nothing more than Alto's with low C extensions in the key of F.
In many ways he's right...to an extent. I still call them basset horns
anyways.
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Colin Harris wrote:
> ... and a bass clarinet in C. Mozart also wrote for Clarinet in B,
> although I don't know whether the instrument was ever built.Do you mean Clarinet in B or Clarinet in H - if you mean Clarinet in B,
then yes he did. In fact, the vast majority of literature for clarinet is
in B. (I freaked out when I first saw that, reading Beethoven's
Sixth...*grin*)I have no awareness of Bass clarinet in C, nor parts being written for the
instrument. Strauss and Wagner were very lazy when it came to writing
parts occasionally, and did not bother to transpose their bass parts, but
the non-transposed bass parts were never written for a specifically keyed
bass clarinet, just for "Klarinettebasse" or whatever. Their A parts were
usually specified, though (but not always). What was really annoying was
that they often wrote in bass clef...sometimes in A...sometimes in
Bb...sometimes in C...and sometimes as WRITTEN, which meant octave
transposition as well! Half the time they did this, they didn't bother to
notate such minor details on the parts...Andrew:
> And one more thing: AFAIK the Bcl in A never existed, though
> composers scored it nonetheless. Does anyone know for sure of a Bcl
> in A ever being manufactured?They most certainly have - there are at least six within the borders of
the United States today, one having once been in the possession of Dan
Leeson, a colleague of mine. I imagine if you talk to the right people
(perhaps Orsi?) you might find someone who will make one for you. It
certainly won't be cheap, that much is certain.
J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"Never put passion before principle. Even when win, you lose."
-Miyagi-san, KKpt.II---------------------------------------------------------
From: Opusnandy
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:37:38 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer sopraninoIn a message dated 7/6/00 9:00:31 AM, kallisti writes:
<< the alto clarinet in G, here called "mezzo-soprano" is actually called
"clarinette d'amour" in every reference I've ever seen. Certainly
that is what it was called when it was a living instrument. >>actually, I was refering not to the older clarinette d'amour, but to a modern
instrument, most often found in Germany. For some reason it is often used in
Klezmer bands over there.Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:07:03 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] clarinets galore> > F and Eb Alto
>I've actually never heard of an F alto clarinet...except from Dan Leeson,
>who insists that all Basset Horns today, with the exception of Selmer's,
>are really nothing more than Alto's with low C extensions in the key of F.
>In many ways he's right...to an extent. I still call them basset horns
>anyways.One of the alto players in our clarinet choir actually has (and
performed on) an F alto. Range to low Eb (written). Used it to
cover the basset horn part on one of the works we played (he brought
both F and Eb altos). Didn't get a chance to talk to him about it.Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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