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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:54:52 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Bb bari sax player, extend range to low A or lower?
At 06:34 PM 6/18/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all on this list,
>
>After some long lurking, this is my first, and hopefully not last, post here.
>
>I play a 1956 Martin bari sax, just low Bb, and wounder (ouch !) if there are
>any plastic, or other material, bell extenders to play low A (low C concert)
>and maybe below? If not, I am thinking about building one,
I've never run across one. I think most bari players (with a low Bb horn) simply resort to the old "heel in the bell" trick to drop the pitch down to low A. Just put your foot part way into the bell while playing low Bb. Best done while sitting... ;-)
>Is it true that the newer low A bari saxes don't play in tune as well as the
>older low Bb bari saxes ? (Hope the war on that ends this millennium, LOL)
This was true about 30 years ago, when the low A bari was newer. Since then, the makers have relocated the tone holes to take the low A bell into account. I think any modern low A horn probably plays as well in tune as any low Bb horn.
>Some day, saving my nickels by the tons, I would like to get a Eb contra-bari
>or Eb contra-bass sax, the one that goes one octave lower.than the bari. Is
>the Tubex (I think it's called) less volume than the older design, larger
>bell Eb CB sax? It is less money and may be easier to play, taking less wind,
>I guess.
That would be the Eb contrabass sax (there is no contra-bari, just Bb bass and Eb contrabass below the bari). The tubax has the same range as the contrabass sax (and is in Eb, an octave below the bari), but has a narrower bore. My guess is that it takes less air, but the volume is more subjective. It probably has a brighter timbre than the corresponding sax, so it may seem just as loud.
Or you could always try a sarrusophone - antique Eb contras typically cost less than a new tubax, and have pretty much the same fingering...
>Another topic, the guys in our 16-20 piece swing band all say that I can't
>learn to double on Bb clarinet after starting on bari. So I just bought an
>old metal clarinet, and will get it from the repair shop tomorrow, all
>rebuilt. If I can learn it, maybe mostly low and middle registers, I can
>play the 4th or 5th clarinet part sometimes written in my 5th bari sax parts.
> (I'm still waiting for the other 4 bari sax players to show up; don't know
>why they gave me the fifth, all by myself, hic !)
No reason you can't learn clarinet. It is easier to learn clarinet first, followed by saxophone (because clarinet is generally thought to be harder, both in technique and embouchure), but that doesn't mean that sax first precludes clarinet later. If you're capable of learning clarinet at all, I don't see why the fact that you can already play bari should hinder you. Expect a tighter embouchure. A few lessons at the beginning are a good idea, too... Or just skip straight to bass clarinet ;-)
To pick up on your tangent, there are a number of CDs that feature ensembles with multiple baris. Look up Hamiet Bluiett's "Baritone Nation", and Charles Papasoff's "Baritone Conspiracy" for music with 4-6 bari saxes in harmony. Or discord... ;-)
Enjoy!
Grant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Green contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & other Contrabass Winds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:11:35 +0100
From: Michael Kilpatrick
Subject: Re: [CB] Bb bari sax player, extend range to low A or lower?
Grant Green wrote:
>> Is it true that the newer low A bari saxes don't play in tune as well
>> as the
>> older low Bb bari saxes ? (Hope the war on that ends this millennium,
>> LOL)
>
> This was true about 30 years ago, when the low A bari was newer.
> Since then, the makers have relocated the tone holes to take the low A
> bell into account. I think any modern low A horn probably plays as
> well in tune as any low Bb horn.
It's not the tuning that's the problem, it's the projection. Low A baritones tend to have a slightly narrower bore than a Bb baritone.
Just compare the diameters of the bells and you'll see the difference. The low A will always be a silly gimmick as far as I'm concerned!
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:10:30 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Bb bari sax player, extend range to low A or lower?
At 12:11 AM 6/19/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>>>Is it true that the newer low A bari saxes don't play in tune as well as the
>>>older low Bb bari saxes ? (Hope the war on that ends this millennium, LOL)
>>
>>This was true about 30 years ago, when the low A bari was newer.
>>Since then, the makers have relocated the tone holes to take the low A
>>bell into account. I think any modern low A horn probably plays as well
>>in tune as any low Bb horn.
>
>It's not the tuning that's the problem, it's the projection. Low A
>baritones tend to have a slightly narrower bore than a Bb baritone.
>Just compare the diameters of the bells and you'll see the difference.
>The low A will always be a silly gimmick as far as I'm concerned!
>
>Michael
My understanding is that the on the first low A baris, they simply extended the bell, and didn't relocate any of the tone holes. The end corrections from the extended bell were enough to throw out the intonation for a number of notes, necessitating some "fine tuning" of the hole placements.
Anyone else recall?
Grant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Green contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & other Contrabass Winds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:04:22 -0400
From: Farfl
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]
>At 08:44 PM 6/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>I'd like to know what the sarrusophones and the mullerphone went
>for.
Grant, Monsieur Laurent said that all the results of the auction will be posted on their website in a couple of days....should make for some interesting reading! Maybe we don't have a financial hope for December 2nd!
Best Regards,
Steven
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:40:18 +0200
Subject: Re: [CB] Bb bari sax player, extend range to low A or lower?
From: Klaus Bjerre
on 19.06.02 2:10, Grant Green wrote:
> My understanding is that the on the first low A baris, they simply extended
> the bell, and didn't relocate any of the tone holes. The end corrections
> from the extended bell were enough to throw out the intonation for a number
> of notes, necessitating some "fine tuning" of the hole placements.
>
> Anyone else recall?
>
> Grant
Aside from my recorders with their combined dozen of keys (less than one a piece) I am in a section of the music business, where we appreciate tubing being tight.
Still my decades old memory recalls a Down Beat feature of Pepper Adams telling, that the reason why he played a Bb foot baritone was its superior response over the A foot ditto.
Not bestowed on me to draw the conclusions.
Klaus
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From: Debherbert
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:05:30 EDT
Subject: [CB] CB Clarinet Questions from a Newbie
Hello all,
My very used Leblanc paperclip contrabass clarinet arrived today, and I can't get one note out of it yet. I have figured out how to stop squawking when just trying the Leblanc mouthpiece with the neck alone, with a Vandoren size 3 reed. Progress. Most of the pads seem to be in decent shape, but the rods and springs are almost all bent, and some of the keys don't seat well over the holes.
Thanks to Karen and Brit for their repair suggestions; I'll be contacting these folks soon.
Here's a "duh, I'm really a newbie" question. When assembled, the bell doesn't protrude over the top bend. There is a neck, bell, and two looped sections. Might I be missing a piece, or is this just how the older models looked? It has the number "CB100" marked on the pieces.
Thanks, Debbie Herbert
Alexandria Community Band, NVCC, Alexandria, VA
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:57:11 -0700
From: David Richoux
Subject: [CB] something that turned up while searching the internet - an Aluminum
http://home.earthlink.net/~jasband/AluminumBass.html
1932 article FYR...
Dave Richoux
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From: ZIPPYTPH
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:07:06 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] bass strings
Any of you string bass players ever use a brand of strings called "deep talkin' bass"? What did you think of the strings?
sande hackel
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Subject: Re: [CB] CB Clarinet Questions from a Newbie
From: Eric Mumpower
Date: 19 Jun 2002 17:20:06 -0400
> When assembled, the bell
> doesn't protrude over the top bend.=A0 There is a neck, bell, and two looped
> sections. Might I be missing a piece, or is this just how the older models
> looked?
Does it look like this:
http://www.mazer-rackham.com/etc/texas.html
If so, then your contrabass probably isn't missing anything, but doesn't have the full extension to low C. Among older instruments, low-Eb and low-D contrabass clarinets are reasonably common.
However, if you have unconnected rods at the joint where your bell attaches, hanging off into space, then you're probably missing the tubing that gives you the low Db and C.
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:08:43 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] CB Clarinet Questions from a Newbie
At 09:05 PM 6/18/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>My very used Leblanc paperclip contrabass clarinet arrived today, and I
>can't get one note out of it yet. I have figured out how to stop
>squawking when just trying the Leblanc mouthpiece with the neck alone,
>with a Vandoren size 3 reed. Progress. Most of the pads seem to be in
>decent shape, but the rods and springs are almost all bent, and some of
>the keys don't seat well over the holes.
Yep, sometimes they don't travel so well...
If you can't even get the throat G (or Bb) to speak, you may have problems with the mouthpiece and/or the register vents (octave keys). First the mouthpiece: is it old, or relatively new? The older mpcs were made for larger reeds, and you may have difficulty finding a reed that will cover the lay properly. Does your reed go all the way to the edge on both sides? If not, you may want to invest in a new mpc. I'd start off with Vandoren #2, unless your mpc tip opening is pretty narrow.
The contra is also more sensitive to embouchure adjustments than the bass or soprano. Your lip should contact the reed right at the point where the mpc begins to curve away from the reed.
Next, the pads. It sounds like your horn arrived pretty banged up. The only real remedy is a good woodwind tech, preferably local (so that the horn doesn't have to be shipped again).
>Here's a "duh, I'm really a newbie" question. When assembled, the bell
>doesn't protrude over the top bend. There is a neck, bell, and two looped
>sections. Might I be missing a piece, or is this just how the older
>models looked? It has the number "CB100" marked on the pieces.
It probably just means that you have a "low D" model rather than a low C. The original curved model was extended only to low D - the low C extension came later. A number of the low D models were later retrofitted with a low C extension. Does it have any keys for the right thumb?
Enjoy!
Grant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Green contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & other Contrabass Winds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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