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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:57:43 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer EEb contra-alto bag/case??The currently heliconproducing company thought of might very well be the
Amati/Cerveny conglomerate. Their original acoustic designs from half and
full centuries ago could be found as the templates of more recent models
from other makers.Sadly the company now acts as a working museum producing outdated technology
applied on less than durable materials.A few weeks ago a 30 years, or so, old German made helicon was up for sale
on eBay. Of a narrow bore making it less than interesting for my music
making. But showing the very practical feature that the bell could be
unmounted. Thereby making the idea of a case, or rather two, possible. Hence
making the bare idea of safe transport accessible.Having a BBb large helicon in my arsenal would be appealing if a common
denominator between my musical desires and a friendly and safe transport
device could be found.Klaus
----------
>From: Heliconman@> I don't know of ANYONE who makes a heicon case, even the one company that
> still makes helicons! You think DEG makes one for a heli, huh?! Hmmmmm...
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:27:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer EEb contra-alto bag/case??> In a message dated 06/26/2000 7:52:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jeanvaljean writes:
>
> > DEG Music Products makes replacement cases for EVERY instrument, even the
> > one-of-a-kind oddball things.
>
> I don't know of ANYONE who makes a heicon case, even the one company that
> still makes helicons! You think DEG makes one for a heli, huh?! Hmmmmm...Yes, they'll custom make ANY case.
They've built a Triple Trombone case for me, and a case for a G Bass Trb
with two slides, to name two of the unusual cases I have.Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:09:56 -0400
From: "Robert S. Howe"
Subject: Re: [CB] Criebert bass SaxophoneRe: the Criebert-Triebert Saxophone, know ye that Triebert mainly made
double reed instruments, and not Sarrusophones. When Gautrot bought the
name in 1881, or when Couesnon bought Gautrot in 1883, this tradition
continued. No legitimate Triebert Saxophones are known.But wouldn't this one be a great start!
Robert Howe
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 01:09:03 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Selmer EEb contra-alto bag/case??In a message dated 06/27/2000 10:47:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
K-Bone writes:> The currently heliconproducing company thought of might very well be the
Amati/Cerveny conglomerate.That's the one!
> Their original acoustic designs from half and full centuries ago could be found as the templates of more recent models
> from other makers.Which makers and how recently?
> Sadly the company now acts as a working museum producing outdated
technology applied on less than durable materials.Several guys I know prefer the helicon to the sousaphone. Outdated? Perhaps
only because very few are made. Useful? Absolutely! I wouldn't call my 1890
Conn BBb helicon outdated! Just old!
> A few weeks ago a 30 years, or so, old German made helicon was up for sale
> on eBay. Of a narrow bore making it less than interesting for my music
> making. But showing the very practical feature that the bell could be
> unmounted. Thereby making the idea of a case, or rather two, possible.
Hence
> making the bare idea of safe transport accessible.I would love to get a tenor and baritone helicon! But there's no accounting
for musical taste, I guess! Different voices!
I considered making my bell removable but I was concerned that some of the
resonance would be removed.
> Having a BBb large helicon in my arsenal would be appealing if a common
> denominator between my musical desires and a friendly and safe transport
> device could be found.
Perhaps the best case is a small station wagon! I frequently take my helicon
to gigs on buses and subways. Sousaphone pads help and I put together a small
box to enclose the valves so they're less likely to be snapped off. A helicon
player friend and I are plotting to build cases for our horns out of
insulation spray foam with a fiberglass shell. I've also considered a "suit
of armor" made of aluminum, lined with foam rubber. These 2 types of cases
would protect the horn, be fairly light and could be designed to be carried
over the shoulder in playing position. It would be nice if a hard plastic
case could be made, but the technology isn't readily available (to my
knowledge) for a one shot build without a huge tooling up cost. A safe case
is easy enough, but friendly is tough for a horn that size. I took my
sousaphone in its big wooden case from Boston to New Orleans on Amtrack,
using a skateboard to roll it from place to place, which I fastened to the
case using a ratchet strap. Steering was easy enough, simply by tipping the
case to the side. An occasional "wheelie" or pivoting on 2 wheels got me out
of a couple of the tighter spots. I still wouldn't call it a "friendly"
transport, but it could have been worse if I'd had to use the shoulder strap.
To keep the weight of the case under 50 pounds (extra shipping charges) I had
to remove the skateboard and the mouthpiece. Wouldn't want to travel with it
all the time!
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:18:03 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: [CB] Helicon follow upThe original founder of the Cerveny make was an inventive person, who had
great influence on the acoustical developments of low brasses.A modern, but not very common, highclass rotary contrabass tuba can trace
its history back to an original Cerveny design. I am avoiding to be too
specific, because I am reluctant to compromise the business of my very
knowledgeable source.>Sadly the company now acts as a working museum producing outdated
>technology applied on less than durable materials.My criticism is not directed towards the acoustical designs of the
Amati/Cerveny conglomerate. In fact I have experienced an unbelievably good
high range playability on an Amati Bb tenor horn.But I am no admirer of the components used in the valve action mechanisms.
Even where the looks are rather updated, they do show the use of brass in
places, where all modern makers do use the much more durable nickel silver.At least that is what I have seen here in Europe. US importers might specify
the use of better materials, even if that is not, what I can deduce from
diverse tuba forums.Our positions on the transportation of helicons are very close. We might
even aggree that this aspect could be of less unwieldy dimensions if the
bell could be unmounted.That should be possible if the last bell ring, where the straight bell
starts, was replaced by a sousa style mounting collar. An additional
clamping mechanism between bell and body might be necessary, and possible.(Even a horn style screw bell might be possible. The potential loss of
resonance apparently has been overcome in other
detachable-bell-instruments).That way we could have the problem brought down to the combined one of a
sousa body and of a straight bell from a 2 part tuba. For which standard
solutions are known.A maybe less known aspect of helicon history:
Downsizing of army bands after the WWI coincided with the rise in demand of
sousaphones to act as bass instruments in the pre-amplification-era
ballrooms.The Paxman company of London, now mostly known for its horn production, was
started at that time. And a lot of its initial business came from converting
"obsolete" helicons to "modern" sousas.Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Colin Harris"
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:58:24 +0100
Subject: RE: [CB] Frequency TableMaybe there is a case for marking "technically possible" notes for these low
brass i.e. the note which physics says is the lowest. For a 4 valve Eb
Tuba, that is E below the lowest A on a piano. For a 4 valve BBb bass that
is B below that, and for a Contra trombone in BBb, that is a C below the
lowest A on a piano. After this, they are no acoustically 'true', just
effects of resonance etc.Colin.
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:13:32 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: RE: [CB] Frequency Table>Maybe there is a case for marking "technically possible" notes for these low
>brass i.e. the note which physics says is the lowest.Unfortunately, physics doesn't recognize a lower limit here. 1)
Brass notes are not, in fact, limited to the harmonic series, but to
"privileged frequencies" that also include fractional frequencies
(such as 2/3 of the fundamental, etc.). There are an infinite number
of these. 2) A real brass instrument is not an acoustically ideal
horn, and the "fundamental" is not really the fundamental, but
another privileged frequency displaced to lie where the fundamental
ought to be. The actual fundamental is, I think, another octave
down. 3) At very low frequencies, the dimensions of the horn have
less and less influence on the pitch produced. Beyond a certain
point, all you have is a resonator modifying the tone of your
raspberry, but offering little control over the pitch. The real
lower limit is imposed not by physics, but by biology: how slowly can
you make your lips flutter?For details and confirmation of all this, see Arthur H. Benade,
*Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics.*--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
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