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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:16:46 -0800 (PST)
From: JJ McLallen <jam_ump10r@yahoo.com>
Subject: bass clarinets
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>So I play Bass Clarinet. In a woodwind ensemble, it may happen to be the
>lowest instrument present, and would be the Bass of the group. It has "Bass"
>in its name, but being rich in overtones, it doesn't sound as low as other
>Bass instruments. It isn't 8 feet long either. I feel discriminated against!Please don't feel that way! I play bass clarinet myself. I did include (probably not highlighted
enough) the "has at some point in its history been read in the bass clef" clause. Nost people don't know
that in Germany in the 19th Century, composers wrote for the bass clarinet in the bass clef, transposed to Bb. My apologies if it appearred that i left something out.I did however leave out the bass flute, and probably the bass recorder. So I'll add a third requirement:
a)reads, or has in its history been read, in the bass clef
b)has a bore 8' or longer
c)has the word "bass" in its name
If this leaves out any instrument that should fit, please let me know, because I really would like to hear about it.
JJ McLallen
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:24:44 -0800 (PST)
From: JJ McLallen <jam_ump10r@yahoo.com>
Subject: question
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Dear God, how has this question of a bass ensemble
>from high school band instruments turned into a
>discussion on every single low instrument on earth?>Stuart
This IS contrabass.com isn't it? I think what we're
trying to do here is a)make sure that our own
instrument gets included, b) include as many other
instruments as we can. We all want to fit it (human
nature) and we simply don't want to leave anybody out.
After all, the more the merrier.JJ
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Contra Strings etc.
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:25:23 -0600
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comDid Verdi design a special bass drum for use in his Requiem? In Fort Worth
the guy played the louder strokes simultaneously on two drums.Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
---------------------------------------------------------
From: ArcLucifer@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:14:48 EST
Subject: Re: Contra Strings etc.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIt was not made especially for the Requiem and has some other name but the
only time it is used is in the Requiem so it has acquired the name "Verdi
Drum". The very loud strokes are written for it and only one is every used.
It looks a bit like a large timpani but is huge.-Jacob
---------------------------------------------------------From: ArcLucifer@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:18:58 EST
Subject: Re: bass clarinets
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comWhat about a "Verdi Drum" you have to amit it is extremely low, it never uses
any clef (untuned) does not have "bass" in its name and neither has any bore
at all! (Sorry being pedantic, there can do be any definitive set of rules
for what is bass because and exception always proves the rule!!)
-Jacob
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 15:58:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dafydd y garreg wen <mavnw@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Euph registers
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn Wed, 2 Feb 2000, J. Daniel Ashton wrote:
> Dygw> Oy! Don't be cheeky. Without resorting to such false things as
> Dygw> double pedals, I (as can a large number of Euphoniumists) can
> Dygw> play notes well below the bass stave. B (6 leger lines) is the
> Dygw> lowest proper note on a standard 4 valve compensating Euph
> Dygw> (although lower can be faked). Even if we're in Bb Treble clef,
> Dygw> that note's still C# below the bass stave.
>
> But that's just the problem! You've got a four-valve, but too many of
> us don't, especially students (the subject of the original post). IThe situation over there in the US must be quite different then. The vast
majority of Euphs over here are 4-valve compensating, as manufactured by
Boosey, Besson, etc... since 1874 (I think), when Blaikley patented the
system. Older ones are quite affordable in the general scheme of things
(e.g. B&H Imperials), and many people (myself included - and I am a
student too, aged 20 ) have the use of a newer one through membership of
some group (usually a brass band). On the matter of tuning (1+3 vs. 4,
1+2+3 vs. 2+4, etc..), these instruments are always superior to 3-valve
instruments (although 3-valve compensators come close), and, of course,
there are extra notes available between pedal Bb and low E (and the octave
below). Why are 3-valve Euphs so prevalent in the US then?> recently arranged a number for my brass ensemble, and really wanted to
> write the euphonium parts below the bass clef staff at times. However,
> both of my euphonium players' instruments have only three valves, to my
> disappointment and consternation. I wrote in the lower notes as
> options, hoping to get a four-valve player sometime in the future.Just don't write too many! Even for 4-valve instruments. This is the
problem with the pieces I was originally talking about - the whole part is
more suitable for Tuba than Euph, and playing these for too long can lead
to the detriment of your high technique; the embouchure wants to stay
floppy!> So, given that Grant way replying to Mark, and that Mark was
> definitely discussing students (ages 12 - 21, I think he said) Grant's
> probably right more often than wrong, i.e. more of the student
> euphonium players in Las Vegas will have three valve instruments, and
> won't be able to play much below F at the bottom of the staff.What about E?! That's below the staff, and reachable on any Euph. Other
notes can be faked (not sounding very good though), down to the pedals,
which are again within range.Dave Taylor
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:18:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dafydd y garreg wen <mavnw@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Writing for Euph
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Grant Green wrote:
> >On a similar note, I'm getting rather fed up of wind band parts written by
> >composers who clearly have no conception of how to write for the
> >Euphonium.
>
> As a sometime composer, who's had a wind band work on the back burner
> for a while, what do *you* like to see in a euph part?The Euph as an independent line - obviously it can be used to great effect
blending in tandem with Tubas or even French Horns, but a part that
restricts itself entirely to the role of doubling has simply missed the
capabilities of the instrument - not to say that this isn't sometimes
necessary throughout a piece, but it does happen rather too often for this
to be argued.> What do you really dislike?
The opposite - relentless monotonous doubling of something tedious (with
the tuba, almost always). Also, as above, parts written in a silly
range. The problem of composers writing continously at the bottom end of
the instrument arises mainly from using the Euph to fill in texture and
double the tubas - rather a novice's mistake in scoring I would have
thought, but the evidence is against that. Continuous high writing I have
never encountered in a wind band, though some brass band writers can get
carried away by the intense sound of the high Euph - I played an
arrangement of 'You'll never walk alone' (although it might as well have
been 'You'll never walk again') by Howard Snell which deigned to descend
into the Bb Treble Clef staff twice, I think in the whole piece (and there
wasn't a single bars rest). Ouch.> For that matter, I'm open to pointers on tuba, trombone, bass bone,
> contrabass bone, and others...I think the principles above stand generally - treat each instrument as an
individual entity that can be deployed en masse, and don't write it
horribly hard. Obviously, you need some experience with each instrument to
find that out, but that's not too hard - just listen to a good player, and
then ask them.Dave Taylor
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:39:29 -0800
From: "Chuck Guzis" <tubastuff@sydex.com>
Subject: Euph question
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHello Dave,
Forgive my presumption, but I note from Grant Green's list that you're a UK euphonium player and I'd like to draw upon your knowledge.
I recently came into possession of a Besson baritone (not euphonium) horn. Not unusual in itself, but the construction of it has my collector friends scratching their collective head. This is an instrument in nickel-silver with 4 valves in a front-action compensating arrangement. I estimate the instrument to be more than 20 years old. Not one of my friends was aware that Boosey ever made a compensating front-action instrument, much less in nickel-silver.
Are these things common on your side of the pond or do I have a really rare bird here?
Being primarily a tuba player, I like the convenience of 4-valve front-action instruments in general. When I do get to play euphonium, it's a Willson 2975 4-front compensator, so this B&H baritone naturally caught my eye.
Best Regards,
Chuck Guzis
Eugene, OR
USA
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "J. Daniel Ashton" <jdashton@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:52:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Euph registers
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>>>>>> "Dygw" == Dafydd y garreg wen wrote:
Dygw> jda> more of the
Dygw> jda> student euphonium players in Las Vegas will have three valve
Dygw> jda> instruments, and won't be able to play much below F at the
Dygw> jda> bottom of the staff.
Dygw>
Dygw> What about E?! That's below the staff, and reachable on any Euph.
Dygw> Other notes can be faked (not sounding very good though), down to
Dygw> the pedals, which are again within range.I KNEW someone would say that! At the time I wrote it I was debating
whether to alter my text. "No," I told myself "E, being only a half
step below F, is not 'much below F' and, besides, it's the only true
sounding note between F and the pedal Bb."<opening new can of worms.>
My real point being, if you live anywhere near Atlanta, Georgia, and
play a four-valve euphonium, PLEASE send me a note y muy pronto. Our
brass choir needs a more versatile instrument in that baritone slot,
and we've got a concert coming up but quick.In fact, if you leave near Atlanta, Georgia and play any kind of brass
instrument, I'd like to talk with you. Please send me an e-mail.Even if you don't play a brass instrument, if you're in the area
you're invited to our brass choir concert February 12 at 5:00 pm.
Write me for directions.Regards,
Daniel
--
mailto:jdashton@southern.edu J. Daniel Ashton ICQ# 9445142
mailto:jdashton@us.ibm.com http://www.southern.edu/~jdashton
mailto:jdashton@bellsouth.net <-- NeXTMail PGP key available
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:53:17 -0800
From: "Chuck Guzis" <tubastuff@sydex.com>
Subject: Re: Euph question
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comMy apoligies to the list for posting a private message; I hit "send" without thinking. Still, I would appreciate any feedback on this particular instrument that any list member might have.
Cheers,
Chuck Guzis---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 13:11:34 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Writing for Euph
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>The Euph as an independent line - obviously it can be used to great effect
>blending in tandem with Tubas or even French Horns, but a part that
>restricts itself entirely to the role of doubling has simply missed the
>capabilities of the instrument - not to say that this isn't sometimes
>necessary throughout a piece, but it does happen rather too often for this
>to be argued.Clear enough. What sort of *line* do you like? Lyrical (e.g., Holst 1st
suite opening)? Humoresque, with jumps and leaps?
> > What do you really dislike?
>the tuba, almost always). Also, as above, parts written in a silly
>range. The problem of composers writing continously at the bottom end of
>the instrument arises mainly from using the Euph to fill in texture and
>double the tubas - rather a novice's mistake in scoring I would haveKeeping in mind that some of us have never been euph players, where do the
ranges fall on the staff? E.g., which notes do you consider "low range",
which comfortable, which uncomfortably high, which rarely accessible?Thanks,
Grant
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