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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:20 -0500
From: Topper <leo_g@carroll.com>
Subject: Re: Air Speed & Timing - Position
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>The lower instrument voices can be more percussive than the upper ones,
>and other instrumentalists can actually adjust to YOUR playing.I realize the potential for more percussion but how do the upper voices
adjust the playing. Is the compensation by our ears or is it a matter of
physics?I have often noted that I effect the string bass esp. in unisons to the
point where it seems like i'm tuning it. However the trumpet (at least the
ones I'm used to) are always fighting to go out of pitch slightly and this
>Playing
>"in the groove" (i.e., based on where your attack comes relative to those
>of the others in the ensemble) is also important.I have often got a bit too far ahead.It is difficult to know when to start
pushing the air out prior to or concurrent with an attack on a reed. I am
used to feeling it a small fraction before I see the bass string recoil or
the bead of the drummers stick hit. But when I'm low it's hard for me to
hear.
"Back seat players"
>(those of us playing "the big uglies") need to stay as "forward in the
>groove" as we can. Good "ensemble" can really depend on it.So far I'm only moderately ugle, but I'm looking to get hiddeous soon :)
>
>Another factor (from painful personal experience): Large-belled
>instruments should not sit close to the tympani or bass drums. The
>percussive shock wave collected and funneled backward into your
>instrument can thoroughly mess up your attack!Spometimes it cant be avioded when miced.I'll bet at some volumes you would
have to build a foam baffle around a bell.Cheers,
Leo G.
Finally getting organized:
http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/ with lots more Musical stuff being "put
on the curb" so I might finally get that one big instrument from a small
town in France. "Bell Dar"
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Trinko" <mtrinko@prodigy.net>
Subject: Las Vegas Bass Clef Emsmbles
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:28:08 -0800
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOK friends, walk me through this. If the only bass clef woodwind
instruments are bassoon & contrabassoon (even though that is really all we
need :) What if we say Woodwinds that play tenor and bass clef only?Originally the plan was to have ONE group Th bass cleffers mixing the brass
and winds. Some said the "tambour" of the different classes of instruments
would make for a bad sound.So I consented to do 2 different groups. Give me more feedback and ideas.
Mark Trinko
MTrinko@Prodigy.net---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Leanne Enck" <kontragirl@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Bass Clef Ensembles
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:40:05 MST
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comWait a second! What about those of us that don't play bass clef, but
definately play a low enough instrument? Example, contrabass clarinet. It
definitely plays low enough, but it plays treble clef. Does that count?
Sorry, I'm kinda slow at these things (I think it's the reed vibration)
Just Curious,
Leanne, the contralto clarinetist.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:45:31 -0600
From: William Dawson <w-dawson@nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Bass Clef instruments
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comMark,
As other posts on this subject have said, many instruments play very low
sounds. However, not all of them play their notes from the bass clef. The
low clarinets and sarrusophones play theirs from the treble clef -- but
this is by tradition and is not related to whether their notes are lower or
higher than others. The important thing is how they sound -- if they are
low by most contra-lovers' standards, no one cares whether they read the
notes in treble, tenor, alto, or bass clef.I hope this explanation helps.
Dr. Bill Dawson
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
William Dawson
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
w-dawson@nwu.edu---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:49:31 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Bass Clef Ensembles
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>OK friends, walk me through this. If the only bass clef woodwind
>instruments are bassoon & contrabassoon (even though that is really all we
>need :) What if we say Woodwinds that play tenor and bass clef only?Same problem, Mark: the only woodwinds that routinely use tenor clef
are bassoon and (rarely) contrabassoon. All other woodwinds are
written in treble clef, and transposed. For example, the BBb
contrabass clarinet is written in treble clef, and sounds 2 octaves
(plus a whole step) lower than the written note.Probably your best bet is to simply list the instruments that qualify:
- bass clarinet or lower
- bari sax or lower
- bassoon, contrabassoon
- euphonium
- tuba
- trombone
- bass trombone (or lower)
- French horn
Depending on where you want to draw the line, you may also want to include:
- bass flute (which only reaches C below middle C, a single step lower than the soprano clarinet)
- bass oboe (only a half step lower than the bass flute - not quite as
- low as the tenor sax)
- bass trumpet
- alto clarinet
- tenor sax
- tenor (aka alto) horn
>Originally the plan was to have ONE group Th bass cleffers mixing the brass
>and winds. Some said the "tambour" of the different classes of instruments
>would make for a bad sound.Don't see how this would affect the timbre: they're written together
in wind ensembles all the time, just usually with some higher-pitched
instruments to go along. Just need to watch the chord voicing (keep
the close harmonies out of the lower registers).What are you using for music? Will works be commissioned/donated, or
are you using standard band music, played down an octave?Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:54:19 -0500
From: Topper <leo_g@carroll.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Bass Clef Ensembles
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThis would be trouble for me too. I use bass cleff with string bass. I
compose using a double bass cleff in short score when there is a need for
it. But I play clarinet in treble cleff, and I'll use a moveable C Cleff
anywhere I have to, but not on a bass cleff. Confused.Cheers,
Leo G.
Finally getting organized:
http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/ with lots more Musical stuff being "put
on the curb" so I might finally get that one big instrument from a small
town in France. "Bell Dar"
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:00:02 -0500
From: Topper <leo_g@carroll.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Bass Clef Ensembles
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> but not on a bass cleff. Confused.
... yes I was.. I meant to say Staff "not on a Bass Staff" I don't use C
clefs on a bass staff (where a bass clef orininally is). Only the tenor
cleff.
Leo
Cheers,
Leo G.
Finally getting organized:
http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/ with lots more Musical stuff being "put
on the curb" so I might finally get that one big instrument from a small
town in France. "Bell Dar"
---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Air Speed & Timing - Position
From: "Corwin D. Moore" <corwinmoore@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 00:52:18 EST
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>>The lower instrument voices can be more percussive than the upper ones,
>>and other instrumentalists can actually adjust to YOUR playing.
>
>I realize the potential for more percussion but how do the upper voices
>adjust the playing. Is the compensation by our ears or is it a matter
>of physics?This depends on the nature of the ensemble. In a conducted ensemble with
a strong conductor (i.e., one with a pronounced downbeat), players are
more likely to "play to the baton." With a conductor with a weaker
downbeat, or in ensemble without a conductor, players play more "to the
ear" (although some small ensemble players, especially in string
ensembles, take visual cues from the lead violinist's bow). In this
latter case, the upper voices are more likely to depend on more
percussive instruments.Among other "big and ugly" instruments (tuba, string bass, bassoon), I
play bass guitar (except we humorously call it "an electric bass lute")
in several small non-conducted ensembles of recorders and viols. The bass
guitar is about the ultimate in a percussive low voice, and it holds the
ensemble together excellently. (Or else I turn up the amplifier!)>I have often noted that I effect the string bass esp. in unisons to the
>point where it seems like i'm tuning it. However the trumpet (at least the
>ones I'm used to) are always fighting to go out of pitch slightly and
>this ... [text lost?][How many trumpeters does it take to change a light bulb? One. He/she
holds the bulb and stands still, and the world revolves around him/her.]>>Playing "in the groove" (i.e., based on where your attack comes relative to
>>those of the others in the ensemble) is also important.
>
>I have often got a bit too far ahead. It is difficult to know when to start
>pushing the air out prior to or concurrent with an attack on a reed. I am
>used to feeling it a small fraction before I see the bass string recoil or
>the bead of the drummers stick hit. But when I'm low it's hard for me to
>hear.So are you articulating solely with breath control rather than with your
tongue? That doesn't sound right!>>"Back seat players"
>>(those of us playing "the big uglies") need to stay as "forward in the
>>groove" as we can. Good "ensemble" can really depend on it.
>
>So far I'm only moderately ugle, but I'm looking to get hiddeous soon
>:)ROTLF
>>Another factor (from painful personal experience): Large-belled
>>instruments should not sit close to the tympani or bass drums. The
>>percussive shock wave collected and funneled backward into your
>>instrument can thoroughly mess up your attack!
>
>Sometimes it can't be avioded when miced. [huh?] I'll bet at some volumes
>you would have to build a foam baffle around a bell.But that would impact the percussiveness of your attack?
- Corwin Moore
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "George Wright" <geo@loyola.edu>
Subject: Bass oboe?
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 07:54:05 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThe ``Las Vegas Bass Clef Ensembles'' thread has mentioned a bass oboe.
Another thread mentioned a bass oboe available on e-bay.What's a bass oboe? What's the difference between a bass oboe and an
English horn?Thanks,
Geo
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 07:32:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Air Speed & Timing - Position
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Topper wrote:
> Is anyone familiar with theories of experience regarding:
>
> 1: The articulation and air speed to set a given note flowing so as to be
> even with the rest of the ensemble. Is it a factor?I'm not quite certain as to what you are asking here...but here's what I
can tell you about air speed and articulation:Air speed is always fast. You must always support firmly with your gut at
all dynamic levels, and as as result, air speed is always fast. Dynamics
are controlled by air volume, or rather, the amount of air pumped out,
rather than the speed of air pumped out.Articulation is a function of airflow - you cannot really articulate
properly (unless you anchor tongue, which...well, that's not articulating
properly) unless you have the fast air speed. When you have the fast air
speed, articulation becomes simple, because your tongue floats on the air
stream, and doesn't require too much movement. Liken it to when you're
cruising down the highway at 55, and you roll down your window and stick
your arm out. Rather than falling and banging against the car door, it
tends to hold itself up due to the air stream.> 2: Position in the ensemble; e.g. if you are in the far back of the smaller
> insts. or in line with your relative instruments would the timing of the
> attck differ?The farther back in the ensemble you are, the more you have to anticipate,
because you are more likely to sound behind. HOWEVER, this is a tricky
art! How far back are you? How big is the ensemble? Or are the front
row people really cool, and play a little behind so that the back of the
ensemble doesn't play a little ahead? If you try to work with this TOO
much, it could come back to bite you. My advice? Wherever you may be
seated, LISTEN! Use your conductor for guidance, but use your EARS as
your map! The best players I have EVER had the pleasure of working with
were fantastic listeners, almost to the point where they never needed to
look up, because they were so well aware of what was going on around them
AURALLY.Well, that's the best I can give ya, hope it helps.
J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"If I wanted a 'job,' I'd have gone music ED, thank you very much!"---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:34:29 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Bass oboe?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>What's a bass oboe? What's the difference between a bass oboe and an
>English horn?The English horn is pitched in F, a 5th below the oboe. The bass
oboe (also called the baritone oboe) is pitched in C, an octave below
the oboe. Its lowest note is the 2nd line B on the bass clef.Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: CMapea@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:27:54 EST
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHello everyone in contrabass land. Im in high school and i wanted to know
any good bassoonist that teach at a college. I also wanted to know any
professors that give bassoon private lessons (anywhere around the US).If you can help me please contact me at Cmapea@aol.com
Thanks !!!
Garnett Coy
Versailles, KY
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