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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:01:08 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Bass Sax FS
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comToday's Bb bass sax for sale is a Conn:
>could you put this on your site for me. the sax needs a good home where it
>can be enjoyed. serial m169639 rolled tone holes plays to high e flat
>ready to play call 320 363 8490 or email jrosen1957@aol.com. taking offers.I've posted his picture of the sax at
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/connbass.jpg, for anyone who wants a
look. Curved Bb soprano not included ;-)Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:16:26 -0500
From: bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: How low can we go?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThe curves often displayed show that the threshold of pain and the threshold of audibility cross somewhere near 20 HZ.
The power required to create pain is a lot! To make the fundamental audible (painful) at 20 HZ is probably a job for a 1000 watt amplifier, more than a simple human chest can generate. However, to hear an overtone sequence and infer a low note is something any ear can do at reasonable power levels.
Hearing an overtone sequence and inferring 8 Hz C is perfectly reasonable. In fact, that is what we normally do on real instruments.
Many years ago I lived near a factory that generated very low pitches. I never investigated, but that is probably the lowest I ever experienced.
Oscar
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:20:33 -0500
From: bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Teaching Bassoon problem.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comSee Dizzy Gillespie.
Connective tissue gets torn from high pressure playing. I have a similar phenomenon in my right cheek.If this is the right explanation, the tissue is torn and healed. There is no 'cure'.
Oscar
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:36:24 -0700
From: Lawrence de Martin <demartin@tesser.com>
Subject: Re: How low can we go - long
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> LeliaLoban@aol.com wrote:
> Can you tell us why you're interested in sub-bass?I have used an electric bass guitar for thirty years, never satisfied
with the sound. I finally figured out why: real bass instruments all
have frequency components below 10Hz when you include dynamics; and no
speakers (other than Tom Danley's "Contrabass" subwoofer) go that low.
> Can the general population hear 8 Hz. and below? Can you point us
> toward some published studies with more detail?I have been using the data from the well-known studies:
These are summarized, along with a wealth of other acoustical
- Fletcher, H., Munson, W.: "Loudness, its definition, measurement and calculation", Journal of the Acoustical Society of America 5:82-108; 1933
- Churcher and King, Journal of the Institute of Electrical Engineers 81:57-90; 1937
- Robinson, D., Dadson, R. "A re-determination of the equal loudness relations for pure tones", British Journal of Applied Physics" 7:166-81; 1956
information in "Electroacoustical Reference Data" ed. John M. Eargle,
1994, Van Nostrand Rheinhold, New York.The key to re-interpretation is extrapolation of the data, since all the
equipment cut off at 20Hz-40Hz! It is important that all three studies
used up to 130dB measurements in the bass octaves since the threshold of
perception is over 70dB for 20Hz (E0). This indicates that average
people can hear lower, if you can just get enough power.> What about the limit of pitch identification?
As far as I know, pitch definition occurs in a harmonic structure. Pure
tones below 100Hz are hard to pin down. I have seen studies of reeds
which show the fundamental is actually suppressed by the natural
instrument acoustics, presumably to get more power to the harmonics. The
harmonic structure provides the perception of the pitch at the suppressed
fundamental, through a psychoacoustic process called "fundamental
reconstruction".Of course, if the fundamental is present one can hear if it is in tune
with the harmonics. This is because the non-linear ear mechanism
amplifies any differences from just intervals.> Could you go into a bit more detail about what sort of building
> makes these sounds audible?Bass can be produced in small rooms, but the frequency response of the
room tends to blur musical expression. The dimensions of the room
provide resonances in the same way that the length of a wind instrument
defines a pitch. The "room modes" also smear dynamics. This is why
"chamber music" is usually confined to 'cello range.> Do such sounds need a building or are they audible outdoors?
You can hear bass outdoors, but the loudness falls off rapidly with
distance. Since bass needs to be quite loud to hear it at all, this is
not generally practical using human powered acoustic instruments until
you gather a lot of them, like a sousaphone section in a marching band.I did have an exceptional experience recently listening to a polka band
outdoors. The instrument was a five valve contrabass Euphonium, and the
venue was a small courtyard in Vail Village. The three story buildings
amplified the fundamentals so they were audible at 15 meters. The
player had to huff and puff a lot, but the results were satisfying.> What are "acoustical holes"?
Anything that passes sound. For bass this can be a thin wall or window,
an open doorway, etc. It is also possible to modify a smaller rooom for
bass reproduction by constructing "bass traps" which absorb sound at
frequencies corresponding to the room resonance modes.> I've been saying that the stairwell works as a sound box. ...With the
> Clavinova moved against the stairwell railing, the Clavinova's internal
> speakers are more than adequateA sound box is a resonater, capturing the sound so as to conserve
energy. This is the opposite of a hole, whose purpose is to lose the
energy.Larry de Martin
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:11:10 -0400
Subject: Re: How low can we go?
From: Michael J Effenberger <tyrthegreatandpowerful@juno.com>
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThere was a little bit on pitch inference in "Fundamentals of Musical
acoustics," which I'm willing to bet some of you have read. The extent
of it was that if you see a child's drawing of a house, you know what it
is even though it may not look like a house. Similarly, the human ear
can apparently recognize pitches with important harmonics missing, i.e.
the fundamental. This is part of the reason that an average home speaker
that drops off at 50 or 60 Hz can reproduce a double-bass's double-low-C.
The fundamental tone is not there, but the octave harmonic and all the
others are, so your ear interprets it to be the note the same way you see
the house.
-Mike EffenbergerOn Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:16:26 -0500 bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net> writes:
>CONTRABASS@contrabass.com
>=========================
>*
>
>The curves often displayed show that
>the threshold of pain and the threshold
>of audibility cross somewhere near
>20 HZ.
>
>The power required to create pain
>is a lot! To make the fundamental
>audible (painful) at 20 HZ is probably a job for
>a 1000 watt amplifier, more than a simple
>human chest can generate. However, to
>hear an overtone sequence and infer
>a low note is something any ear can do
>at reasonable power levels.
>
>Hearing an overtone sequence and inferring
>8 Hz C is perfectly reasonable. In fact, that
>is what we normally do on real instruments.
>
>Many years ago I lived near a factory that
>generated very low pitches. I never investigated,
>but that is probably the lowest I ever experienced.
>
>Oscar
>----------------------
>end contrabass list___________________________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:46:42 -0500
From: bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: How low can we go - long
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn my old BBb Conn low Eb, OPEN
is a fine healthy note.
I use it a lot when rattling the floorboards.
It is much better than the Forth valve equivalent.Just because it does not appear in the elementary
physics books is no reason to dismiss it!Of course, it may not exist on your horn.
I regularly play down an octave in band.
I even did the Kije opening in orchestra
down an octave. Starting with Open Eb
on a BBb Reynolds horn, ending on Open BBb.Architectural Space: You need a room with
linear dimensions similar to the wavelength
of the pitch you are producing.20 Hz F wave length = (1100 Ft / Sec) / (20 / Sec) = 55 Ft.
Oscar
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:54:54 -0500
From: bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Contrabass Sarrusophone in concert!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI recall reading the sarrusophone part on tuba.
Something about long running fours against
triplets elsewhere. Good stuff.Oscar
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:58:16 -0500
From: bonnie&Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: CB Strings?!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comYou mean Carleene Hutchins.
Look up the Catgut Acoustical Society
for more info and research.O
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