Vol. 1, No. 75

 ___________________________________________________
|                                                   |
|CONTRABASS-L                                       |
|        An email list for discussion of bass and   |
|        contrabass instruments of all kinds.       |
|        Contact gdgreen@crl.com for subscription.  |
|        See http://www.contrabass.com/contra-archive/c-arch.html  for  |
|        back issues.                               |
|___________________________________________________|

EDITOR'S NOTE: Let's welcome new subscribers Karen Combs, J.M.W., David V Feldman, and William Dawson, M.D. Welcome aboard!

My apologies for not sending out my usual "welcome" message right away for everyone: one heck of a weekend! Please feel free to post an introduction along the lines of interests, background, instruments, etc. Not required, but appreciated. Even a few examples below ;-)

For anyone interested in the statistics, we now have 79 subscribers (including the Editor). Since starting last June, two people have unsubscribed, and one has disappeared (Ken Pergmon): I understand that Loral was acquired by another company, and haven't been able to reach Ken.

Author: "Carl Kleinsteuber"
Date: 1/10/97 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabass trumpet
 
 

Hi again, Grant:

I built the CB trumpets as sort of a lark; for $500, they didn't have to be TOO pretty, and in view of the fact that there's NO repertoire for the beast, I figured I was home free: folks would simply enjoy the horn for what it is-- a fun instrument.

When you speak of a CC Contrabass Trumpet, then things get complicated. It would need a larger bore 4-valve section (17-19mm) instead of the smaller (12-13mm) 3-valve sections that I can so readily obtain. Also, shipping becomes an issue: I live in Holland. The trumpets were relatively easy to put in the mail, but a larger axe would be much more difficult. I'm afraid I must respectfully decline your offer.

Something that might interest your list members: I play with a jazz group called "Gravity", which features 6 contrabass tubas and a killer rhythm section. It's lead by Howard Johnson, (who also plays bari sax and bass sax!). Our first CD is on the Verve label, and we will be featured this coming Sunday (Jan. 12) on CBS Sunday Morning. Tune in if you get a chance!

Glad you found Dr. Young's page. The guy's a maniac! He knows a tremendous amount about the acoustics of musical intruments, and has been kind enough to answer about a zillion of my questions.

Great digest! Thanks!

Carl Kleinsteuber

Author: Jack Silver
Date: 1/10/97 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 74
 
 

I have just joined this CB group and Grant has invited me to tell the group something about interests. I have been a contrabass enthusiast for some time now. I think I got into the rare musical instrument business in 1977, after retiring as a statistician with the Census Bureau, so that I could have a better chance at finding CB instruments. So far I have: a Leblanc 5 piece metal CB clarinet designed by Houvehnagel, a BB flat sarrusophone that I bought from Kermit Welch a number of years back, an EE flat Buffet sarrusophone that I traded for a bassoon, another EE flat by Conn which I just got. A few years back the original owner of Ted's Music Shop in Baltimore sold me some baroque-like instruments made by Mollenhauer in Fulda, Germany. One was a bass or baritone oboe in plumwood with brass keywork that plays an octave below the orchestral oboe. It uses a bocal about 8 inches long which I think might be a baritone oboe bocal. the other is what I have been calling a 'Great bass in F'. You coud also call it a bass english horn since it has about the same range as the english horn but down an octave. Assembled it's over 50 inches and has a brass bocal. It works reasonably well with a bassoon reed

(Before writing more I'm going to try to post this much since there looks like some kind ofcomputer garbage at the top of my screen! Jack Silver)

From: "Daryl Fletcher"
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:53:30 EST
Subject: Introduction
 
 

Well, I've been subscribed to contrabass-l for about a week now, and I'm just now getting around to introducing myself.

My name is Daryl Fletcher and I work as a technical services librarian at Cherokee Regional Library in LaFayette, Georgia, which is 25 miles from Chattanooga. I've been living in this area for about a year now.

I have been playing the tuba since 1980, and was in the University of Alabama's Million Dollar Band back when I was in college. I now play in the MidSouth Concert Band, which is a great local community band. I also play in various small groups around the area. I am planning to form a tuba quartet with some friends of mine soon.

As I mentioned earlier, I recently became the proud owner of a contrabass trumpet that was built by Carl Kleinsteuber. It's the fourth made by Carl, and as far as I know, the fifth in the entire world. It's a really cool instrument.

I noticed that Carl recently joined the list too, and it's great to have him aboard.

I am also interested in ancient tuba-like instruments, such as serpents and ophicleids. At the recent TUBACHRISTMAS in Atlanta, there was a guy who had a keyless metal serpent from the 1790's. I don't know where the guy got it or how he learned to play it, but if there was an award given for most unusual instrument he would have gotten it.

I would like to thank Grant for putting this all together. I've been reading some of the back issues, and there are some really interesting things going on here.

---------------------------------

Daryl Fletcher

http://www.walker.public.lib.ga.us/~daryl/

From: "Frederick J. Young"
Subject: FW: Subcontrabass Tuba
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:59:56 -0500
 
 

Greetings:

It was custom made by the Herbert Gronitz Co in Hamburg, Germany. The highest note which must be played as a pedal note is the Eb below the lowest A on the piano. This means that the lowest pedal note is the second E below the piano. Thus, I rarely find it necessary to use pedal notes which sound bad because they have so much harmonic content. The lowest I normally play is a C one octave below the lowest C on the piano. It is a complete double tuba in EEE natural and BBb with five double valves and it is a full double tuba as opposed to the compensating ones commonly seen. If one starts on the second Bb on the piano one descends in semitone by the following fingerings (where S is the switch valve to switch horns):

0 2 1 3 4 5 S S2 S1 S3 S4 S5 . With the S5 combination you are at the last B natural on the piano. Below that note one can use pedal tones on the BBb tuba or fuller sounds on the EEE tuba , the fingering of which I shall not now discuss in full. For example S45 gives a very good sounding Ab just below the piano. Above the aforementioned B natural it is never necessary to use valves in combination, thereby avoiding errors in intonation that always result and avoiding the stuffiness caused by valve combinations. Its blowing resistance is constant as one plays up or down the scale. The is a slide to tune each degree of the chromatic scale. Also there are about 5 slides located in different part of the main path of the tuba which adjust the relationship of the open tones with each other. If one plays with a group which is extremely flat or sharp, one must spend about 20 minutes with a Korg tuner to adjust all note to within + or - 2 cents. The range is fairly easy up to b flat a seventh above the middle c on the piano. In Phil Catelinet's arrange of the Capuzzi Bass Concerto which I have done many times with various bands and orchestra (& recorded) the lowest note in the cadenza in the first movement is F below the piano and the highest is the second F above the middle C on the piano (sounding top line f in treble clef for the piano). I can always play notes up to that without trouble as long as I don't have to remain up there for too long. Once I practised higher notes and could play one octave higher. Actually, Arnold Jacobs and I discovered years ago through physical measurements that the flow rate and pressure in the mouth are the same regardless of the kind of brass instrument you play. So if one could play a triple high C on the trumpet he could do the same note on the tuba. Since tubist don't attempt such notes they can't play them. Every time one ascends an octave the gage pressure doubles. Hence, screach trumpet players must be able to blow up high pressure bicycle tires in order to get the highest notes. That is very bad for ones eyes and cardiovascular system. Any note more than one octave above the piano middle c on any brass instrument is unhealthy to play!

>Hi,
>Ran across your web page, and found the subcontrabass tuba *very*
>interesting. Was it made custom, or as a production model? What is
>your range on the instrument?

>I've long been interested in the contrabass (and lower) range
>instruments, although I've mainly played woodwinds (e.g., contrabassoon,
>contrabass clarinet, contrabass sarrusophone). In my spare time (OK,
>there's no such thing as spare time) I also run an email list for others
>interested in bass and contrabass instruments (Contrabass-L). I'm sure
>that a number of the tuba players on the list would like to hear more
>about your instrument, as would I. If you're curious about the list,
>back issues are archived at http://www.contrabass.com/contra-archive/c-arch.html.

>Grant Green

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0800
From: Trent Ruane
Subject: BBC documentary
 
 

Hi Grant,

Please forgive me if this was already covered in the list, but I was wondering where I might obtain a copy of the BBC documentary mentioned in Contrabass-L No. 74 ?

Thanks,
-Trent

Trent Ruane
CNET: The Computer Network

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:57:24 -0800
From: Karen Combs
Subject: Subscribe Contrabass-L
 
 

I would like to subscribe, but first, is there a charge? You can reach me at  juno.com. I love bass, contrabass, etc. flutes!

Author: Grant Green
Date: 1/10/97 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: Subscribe Contrabass-L
 
 

>I would like to subscribe, but first, is there a charge? You can reach
>me at juno.com. I love bass, contrabass, etc. flutes!

I'll add your name to the subscription list. Please feel free to post an introduction (e.g., background, instruments played, interests, etc.): not required, but appreciated.

Welcome aboard!

Grant

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:55:13 -0600
From: The White Family
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CONTRABASS-L
 
 

I would like to subscribe, put me on the mailing list. By the way, where can I buy a sarrusophone? How much are they? Thanks.

-J.M.W.

Author: Francis Firth
Date: 1/13/97 7:34 AM
Subject: Saxophone Bourdon
 
 

Someone mentioned in a recent posting about a contrabass saxophone - bourdon being mentioned on a homepage.

This is almost certainly an error.

I have been talking to Paul Cohen by e-mail about this matter. The saxophone bourdon or contrabass is mentioned in Sax's original patent but there is no proof that he ever made it. There is anecdotal evidence that Sax made a contrabass saxophone although no specimen survives but no evidence at all for the bourdon outside of the patent. However, several sources such as (no less) Philip Bate in the New Grove Dictionary and Sybille Marcuse in her dictionary mention it as if it had been made. So although the reference may have been based on reliable sources these were not primary sources and would appear to be in error here. So nice as a saxophone bourdon might be it remains something of a chimera.

The only 2 subcontrabass instruments that I (or Paul Cohen) know of, one of which was Conn's Eb Octo-contrabass and the other without a key, Rod Baltimore's, were not really properly playable MUSICAL instruments, just gimmicks.

Francis

That would be me. Actually, what I found was a page that describes the French patent application, which mentions the bourdon sax. I just wondered if one was ever built.

Grant

Author: "Elie A. Harriett"
Date: 1/13/97 6:51 AM
Subject: contrabass bone thesis
 
 

Hello fellow contra-lovers. I beg of your help in finding some info on the following:

I have to do a senior thesis for graduation and I am interested in doing it on the history of contrabass trombone literature. Do any of you think this is a feasible topic? I have been doing some searching and I have found only operatic and orchestral excerpts for the contrabass. Is it worth it to research this topic any further with hopes of finding some solo lit., or should I change my topic to something that I know I can find more information on.

I would appreciate any insights you can give me, including possible leads on contrabass trombone solos. You may email me personally or to the list. Thanks in advance.

Elie

Author: Jack Silver
Date: 1/12/97 10:07 AM
Subject: More 'New Member' bio.
 
 

Grant invites new members to the CB list to tell you about their CB interests. I sent one message the other day but I am not sure it got posted because of local server trouble. Assuming it may have got through, let me add a few more words (Like 1000).

I forgot to mention that my BB flat sarrusophone was made by Couesnon, the successor to Gautrot who worked with Sarrus to produce the s-phone family. Also I drive the s-phones with sax mouthpieces. I inserted a cork drilled out to the size of the bocal into the mouthpiece. For the EE flats I am using a sopranino sax mouthpiece. The BB flat needs an alto mouthpiece because the bocal adaptor is too fat to take anything smaller. Grant has suggested that Sordune reeds sold by Early Music in England work for him. I plan to try that as soon as I can raise enough money to buy one which is just a little bit less than the price of a new Heckel Contrabassoon!

Scott Robinson, a fine NY musician, asked to borrow the EE flat for a jazz recital CD. I had to do it because I didn't want to go down in history as the guy who prevented a sarrusophone CD from being made. On the other hand, another friend wanted to know if I wanted to be known as someone who was partly responsible for such a deed! His CD was recorded this past December and should be released this coming summer. I will post further news about this CD as I get it. BTW, one of the cuts is 'Mandy Make up Your Mind' in tribute to the Bechet solo on the old Clarence Williams hot Five record.

To Grant Green, the Conn EE flat does not make written b flat using left 1 and right 1 only nor does it seem to have any features not on the Buffet but then I have just started getting used to it.

And finally, does anyone know of someone on the East Coast who you would recommend for repairs? I think it would be best to use someone who is sympathetic to these beasts.

Jack Silver, new kid on the block.

Author: Grant Green
Date: 1/12/97 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: More 'New Member' bio.
 
 

At 09:55 AM 1/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Grant invites new members to the CB list to tell you about their CB
>interests. I sent one message the other day but I am not sure it got
>posted because of local server trouble. Assuming it may have got through,
>let me add a few more words (Like 1000).
>I forgot to mention that my BB flat sarrusophone was made by Couesnon, the
>successor to Gautrot who worked with Sarrus to produce the s-phone family.
>Also I drive the s-phones with sax mouthpieces. I inserted a cork drilled
>out to the size of the bocal into the mouthpiece. For the EE flats I am
>using a sopranino sax mouthpiece. The BB flat needs an alto mouthpiece
>because the bocal adaptor is too fat to take anything smaller. Grant has

>suggested that Sordune reeds sold by Early Music in England work for him.
>I plan to try that as soon as I can raise enough money to buy one which is
>just a little bit less than the price of a new Heckel Contrabassoon!

>Scott Robinson, a fine NY musician, asked to borrow the EE flat for a
>jazz recital CD. I had to do it because I didn't want to go down in

>And finally, does anyone know of someone on the East Coast who you would
>recommend
>for repairs? I think it would be best to use someone who is sympathetic to
>these beasts.

Grant

Author: Gmuzic
Date: 1/11/97 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 74
 
 

As a sax player I am always interested in expanding my instrument collection.

I am very interested in accquiring any good playing tenor, soprano, or sopranino saxes. If anyone has one they don't need or knows where I could get a good deal on one let me know.

Chris (Gmuzic)

Author: Grant Green
Date: 1/11/97 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabass list
 
 

At 06:26 PM 1/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Grant - Thanks for subscribing me to the list. Yesterday I to wrote
>the story of my life and a list of my CB instruments..I tried to post
>it to <gdg@contrabass.com> but I don't think it got posted. Am I using the
>correct address for the list? BTW, 7 fingers down on what I call the great
>bass oboe in F gives me F rather than C. I now call it a bass english
>horn. Best wishes. Jack

I'll probably send out the next digest on Monday.

Grant

Author: DGross1226
Date: 1/11/97 8:29 PM
Subject: Contrabass Clarinet For Sale
 
 

Only you folks on this list would understand. Thanks to a bit of "feast or famine," I find myself the proud owner of TWO LeBlanc metal contrabass clarinets. I would like to find a good home for the straignt body Model 342 horn. It's been completely overhauled with all new white leather pads, all linkages are in perfect working condition, the plating on the plateau keys is worn but that's to be expected, the case is virtually brand new, and cosmetically it's perfect. While the original Leblanc mouthpiece is OK, I've found that both VITO and the Woodwind Company mouthpieces make the horn much more responsive and give it a wider and more controlled dynamic range.

Please e-mail me directly for more details if you're interested.

Don Gross
La Canada, California

(p.s. Because it's a bear to ship, being within a reasonable distance of Los Angeles would be a definite plus.)

Author: Steven & Jessica
Date: 1/11/97 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Contrabass-L No. 73]
 
 

>At 12:12 AM 1/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Did you get "Lowest Of The Low" yet? Is that an "awful-clyde" in that
>>vintage clip at the end of the VHS???
>Yes! It must be an ophicleide. Unfortunately, none of the sound came
>through on the commercial clip
>Grant

The audio for that clip was just the announcer on the commercial spot talking about the watch..I'm sure they just used silent stock footage...there was no instrument sound on the track, so I didn't include it. What are ophicleides worth?

By the way, with all your new subscribers, you can feel free to post the message again about the Lowest Of The Low tapes for sale!

Thanks,
Steven

My understanding is that there are a variety of ophecleides, in Bb and C, and with differing numbers of keys. My impression is that they go for something in the range $2-4K, depending on condition, age, number of keys (9-11), and maker. The horns made by Adolphe Sax are especially sought after.

Here's the excerpt from #45 about the "Lowest of the Low":

>I just want to let your readers know that I've obtained a PAL video copy of
>the 1985 BBC program; "The Lowest Of The Low". This is a 45 minute
>documentary all about bass (and contrabass) saxophones and was reviewed in
>Volume 11, Number 2 (Summer 1986) of Saxophone Journal. I can get a
>standard-conversion done professionally from PAL (European video standard)
>to NTSC (North American video standard) and if I can get enough of a
>response, I will be happy to do this for any of your readers for the sum of
>$20US which will include postage and tape. Anyone who's interested in
>obtaining a copy of this documentary can e-mail me at my address;
>lederman@inforamp.net
>This even contains home movies of Rollini!!
>Steven.

Author: Steven & Jessica
Date: 1/11/97 8:04 AM
Subject: Stephen Fox
 
 

>>Author: DGross1226
>>Date: 1/9/97 7:12 PM
>>Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 73

>>In a message dated 97-01-09 16:22:52 EST, you write:

>><< I also know a genius of a man who can build you an octavin, if you're
>>interested; he also makes bassett horns out of alto clarinets, and builds
>>his own taragatos and such.....good ol' STEPHEN FOX.>>

>>Grant,

>>Could this possibly be the same Stephen Fox who's picture I'm looking at in
>>the 1953 La Jolla High School annual - The Viking - who played bassoon in
>>the Concert Band with Dr. Ernest H. Wilcox at La Jolla (California) High School?

>>Don Gross
>>La Canada, California
>>(Clarinet, La Jolla High School Concert Band 1954-55, Class of 1957)
>I don't know: we'll have to ask Steven Lederman (it was his post).

>Steve?

I think the only thing "La Canada" about Steve Fox is the "Canada" part, but I could be very, very wrong. He does have an English accent, and he travels over to some place like Budapest to teach occasionally, but I don't think he spent his formative years in California. I must admit, though, the similarities are quite striking; the bassoon/clarinet reference, and the fact that Steve has been known to dress up like a Viking and force himself down people's chimneys (at random.)

Anyways, I've put the query to him via e-mail, and I should be receiving a hearty response soon enough. Unless of course he's hiding, as I told him I have a metal Albert System clarinet I want him to repair......

By the way, everybody, I'm paying good money for any Six Brown Brothers memorabelia you might have, such as old promo photos, sheet music, etc.......

STeven Lederman

Author: David V Feldman
Date: 1/11/97 8:01 AM
Subject: subscribe contrabass
 

Author: Gmuzic
Date: 1/11/97 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 74
 
 

Grant,

I've got a question for you. Is there a such thing as a straight bari or bass sax, just curious. Also who makes the curved sopranino that you claim to have, darn that must be tiny..

Gmuzic (Chris)

Author: Grant Green
Date: 1/11/97 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 74
 
 

At 01:36 AM 1/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Grant,

>I've got a question for you. Is there a such thing as a straight bari or bass
>sax, just curious. Also who makes the curved sopranino that you claim to
>have, darn that must be tiny..

>Gmuzic (Chris)

There was a straight bari made ... once, as a novelty. I've forgotten most of the details, but it was mentioned some time ago in Paul Cohen's column in Saxophone Journal. Some sax player had one made, and had to stand on a chair to play it. I think it even appeared in a movie.

Don't have a curved sopranino myself. I think Orsi makes curved 'ninos, and that Buescher made a few. Of course, we do have a few sax experts on the list: what say you, guys?

Grant

Author: Grant Green
Date: 1/10/97 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: FW: Subcontrabass Tuba
 
 

>such notes they can't play them. Every time one ascends an octave the gage
>pressure doubles. Hence, screach trumpet players must be able to blow up
>high pressure bicycle tires in order to get the highest notes. That is very
>bad for ones eyes and cardiovascular system. Any note more than one octave
>above the piano middle c on any brass instrument is unhealthy to play!

Seriously, thanks for a very informative and interesting description of your instrument.

>on the piano. In Phil Catelinet's arrange of the Capuzzi Bass Concerto
>which I have done many times with various bands and orchestra (& recorded)

Thanks,

Grant Green

Author: "Frederick J. Young"
Date: 1/11/97 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Subcontrabass Tuba
 
 

Send me a blank cassette and your Snail address and I will make a tape for you

Fred Young

Author: Your Name
Date: 1/13/97 6:51 AM
Subject: Subscribing
 
 

subscribe contrabass-l

William Dawson, M.D.
Contrabassoon/tuba

End Contrabass-L No. 75
 
 

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