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EDITOR'S NOTE: Let's welcome new subscriber Elie Harriett < harriete@pacificu.edu >. Care to say a few words?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:42:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Terwilliger <joe@linkage.cpmc.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 52
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Grant Green wrote:
> Do your CBTBs have double slides?
Mine does - however, most "so-called" contrabass trombones today are pitched in F and have a single slide, sometimes with a handle to reach the outer positions (typically there are only 5 or at most 6 on one of those).
> I've read somewhere that the slide on
> the contrabass is doubled, so that the positions end up the same distance
> as on the tenor trombone.
That is not really true - the first few positions are closer together than on a tenor trombone, but the distances become much wider when you go farther out - such that there are only 6 positions on my horn at all - and that is tough to reach, and rarely needed, with the F attachment.
> Or is it mainly an extra trigger and a wider
> bore?
The F horns usually have a couple of independent valves, but mine has one FF attachment only. The bore is much wider and much more conical than a tenor trombone.
> Where does one find a new CBTB these days, or does one?
Several companies make them - mine is a Miraphone, but there are a lot of F horns made by Laetzsch, Alexander, Thein, and several more companies - mostly in Europe.
> What about it makes it hard to play?
Cylindrical bore instruments that are that long are incredibly unstable - especially in third and fourth partials. Further the slide - having four tubes - has much more weight and friction, and it is next to impossible to get all four tubes lined up perfectly and stay that way for very long - few repairmen even want to look at the thing, let alone try and align something that complicated. Mine is not bad from the tuba players persepctive - but trombonists cannot typically believe I can actually play with any flexibility because of the difficulty of moving the slides.
> I played trombone a bit in high school and
> college, and always found it easier than tuba (not that I had many
> opportunities to play tuba...).
Well, for me tuba is much easier :-)))
> Do you know of any other CBTB recordings? I've run across a piece by
> Toshiko Akiyoshi called "I ain't gonna ask no more", which features a
> contrabass trombone in a big band setting. Other than that, there are
> a few "original instruments" recordings of Berlioz works that call for
> contrabass trombones (which must have predated tubas).
Berlioz? I do not know about any of those, but Wagner used it quite a bit in his operas, Strauss in Elektra, Host in many pieces, Stravinsky in Canticum Sacrum, many 20th century orchestral pieces, and lately it has become popular in movie soundtracks. Some Verdi and Puccini also use it (though sometimes it is ambiguous whether he meant contrabass trombone or cimbasso - which is basically a valved contrabass trombone of sorts.). There are other examples arouns dating back to Monteverdi...
Best,
Joe Terwilliger
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:40:02 -0500
From: Paul Lindemeyer <paulwl@gannett.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Goofus (Contrabass-L)
Grant Green wrote:
> what is a goofus?
A goofus is (I should say was -- I've never seen one) a mouth organ shaped like a saxophone. I seem to recall the trade name as "couesnophone," so perhaps they came from Couesnon et Cie. in Paris.
I don't know of a contra-goofus, so I'll cut this short.
Paul Lindemeyer (paulwl@gannett.infi.net)
--------------------------------------------------------
CELEBRATING THE SAXOPHONE - An Illustrated History
At your local bookseller from William Morrow & Co.
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:48:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Stryder <stryder@rupert.mhv.net>
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 52
> Do your CBTBs have double slides? I've read somewhere that the slide on
> the contrabass is doubled, so that the positions end up the same distance
> as on the tenor trombone. Or is it mainly an extra trigger and a wider
> bore? Where does one find a new CBTB these days, or does one? What about
> it makes it hard to play? I played trombone a bit in high school and
> college, and always found it easier than tuba (not that I had many
> opportunities to play tuba...).
grant, (i know you asked him, but anyway i thought i might answer) you can list post this if you want, and my band director was interested in the list from lyn marcus, he wasn't planning on buying anything, although the mezzo soprano interested him, he wasn't sure about buying a collectors instrument. after he asked where i got the list, and gave a quick explanation of the list, and mentioned you and your sarrusophones he did say that he'd love to have one though.
on the topic of CBTB's, though, my point was the brasswind has in stock a mirafone 57F trombone new for 3795. ($25 resotcking fee on it though) in case you have that much free, and would like a CBTB in a week or so.
-Alan
Author: gdgreen@crl.com (Grant Green) at SMTP
Date: 10/31/96 4:21 PM
TO: Stryder <stryder@rupert.mhv.net> at SMTP
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 52
>on the topic of CBTB's, though, my point was the brasswind has in stock a
>mirafone 57F trombone new for 3795. ($25 resotcking fee on it though) in
>case you have that much free, and would like a CBTB in a week or so.
>-Alan
It actually sounds pretty tempting, but if I had the cash to spare I'd probably go for one of the rothophones first. It is heartening to find that the CBTBs aren't too difficult to find: maybe their use will become more widespread.
Thanks for looking it up!
Grant
Author: Francis Firth <Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk> at SMTP
Date: 11/1/96 8:31 AM
Subject: Goofus & Rollini
Grant,
as far as I remember, the original name for the Goofus (so named by Rollini) was Couesnophone.
It's a saxophone shaped sort of kazoo (I think) patented by the firm Couesnon, makers of musical instruments, but will check it out on my CD of Adrian Rollini and the Goofus Five.
Incidentally, I'd really like a copy of that Bouncin' in Rhythm CD? Any chance you could pick one up for me as I think it's an American label?
Francis
Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk
I'll see if I can find another copy.
Grant
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:12:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Philip Neuman <neuman@uofport.edu>
Subject: Re: Contrabass-L No. 52
Hi Grant,
I'm glad you like "Acres of Clams". Yes, since discovering the "Poioneer Brass" on the spine of this CD, it has been our nickname for the group. Our early music ensemble's name De Organographia was once spelled "Dr. Arganofraphia".
My contrabass trombone is a double slided BBb without any valves. It's an old anonymous German (?) instrument; I had to build a new slide for it. The double slide makes the positions the same as a tenor. Michael Praetorius in his "Syntagma Musicum" (1619) shows a contrabass sackbut with a very long single slide with a handle. If memory serves, an extant cb sackbut (with a reconstructed slide?) is in Stockholm.
I found a great mouthpiece for my cb trb. recently-the new Monette F tuba mouthpiece. (I test tuba mps for Monette whose trpt. shop is in Portland)
I have a student looking for a contrabass trombone. Has anyone heard of one for sale?
Some makers build bass/contrabass trombones that are in G or F with 1 or 2 triggers. I know Jurgen Voigt makes one and I heard that Edwards might be offering one as well.
Philip Neuman
End Contrabass-L No. 53