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Contrabass-list Fri, 31 Oct 1997 Volume 1 : Number 22
In this issue:
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:01:00 -0800
From: Grant
Green <gdgreen@crl.com>
Subject: Repost from
Doublereed-L
Michel suggested I forward this to the contra list, for anyone interested.
--------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:26:41 -0500 (EST)
From: JolivetDVM@aol.com
To: doublereed-l@bcc.wuacc.edu
Subject: sarrusophone single reed mouthpiece
While we're on the subject of single reed mouthpieces for double reed instruments, I should point out that these were also made for the sarrusophone as well. Advertisements at the time for these recommended them for saxophonists who already knew the basic sarrusophone fingerings but who had no conception of the double reed embouchure. Conn, for one, made them for their contrabass sarrusophone. In other words, it theoretically made the instrument easier to play ( at least for a certain target group of players - the converted saxophonists ) . Clearly, they were of no advantage to true double reed players who would have adapted the sarrusophone, most of whom were bassoonists. Their particular problem was in having to learn new fingerings and getting used to playing in treble clef.
I have never seen such a mouth piece, but I suspect they are much like the ones used on bassoons. As for how they change the tone of the sarrusophone, who knows? The sarrusophone tone is much "coarser" (for want of a better adje ctive) than the bassoon in the first place, so I can only imagine it might make it sound closer to a sax. Anyone out there have first hand experience?
Michel Jolivet, bass sarrusophonist:-)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:02:30 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@crl.com>
Subject:
Another forward...
This post also relates to sarrusophone mpcs.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:16:11 -0500 (EST)
From: JolivetDVM@aol.com
To: doublereed-l@bcc.wuacc.edu
Subject: Further thoughts on single reed sarrusophone mouthpieces
I've given more thought to single reed sarrusophone mouthpieces. No French literature which I have seen has ever mentioned such a device; it has only been mentioned specifically by the Conn Co. and they only made the EEb contrabass sarrusophone, so I will theorize that this was the only sarrusophone which was ever equipped with one. In size, it was very similar to a soprano sax mouthpiece.
Now for some real speculation: Sidney Bechet, the famous jazz soprano sax player once recorded a piece called "Mandy" in ~1919 on sarrusophone, the only known example of jazz sarrusophone until perhaps this year. Many people have wondered why on earth he would have done such a thing. Well, it can easily be explained if we assume that he was playing a contrabass sarrusophone with a single reed mouthpiece! Clearly, he was a virtuoso jazz player on clarinet and soprano sax, so the mouthpiece would have been perfect for him - there would be no reason at all for him to learn a double reed embouchure. I will additionally speculate that he recorded the piece on a Conn EEb contrabass as they are the only company that I am aware of that supplied a single reed mouthpiece as an option. As for the sound, it is perhaps difficult to tell from listening to a 78 rpm record ( or a rerelease on LP or CD) but to my ears it sounds "tubby" and closer to a sax sound than to a contrabass double reed. On the other hand, no one who has written about Bechet and this recording has ever gone on record to state that it sounds any different than a contrabass sarrusophone played with a double reed! So in the final analysis, it may be that the intrument sounds essentially the same whether a double or single reed is used.
A friend of mine who is a fantastic bass sax player (Paul Woltz) told methat when he lived in California he owned a contrabass sarrusophone that he thinks was either a CC or BBb and not an EEb. It came with a single reed mouthpiece that was more the size of a tenor sax one rather than a soprano.
One final thought and I will have exhausted my ideas: A single reedmouthpiece for any doublereed instrument would be advantageous in marching as the reed is less prone to damage and no one would care what you sound like in a marching band anyway! Also, for the occasional player, it's easier to get a single reed to work than to have to fool around making a double reed!
Michel Jolivet (sarrusophone historian)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:05:05 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@crl.com>
Subject:
Sarrusophone mpcs
> I have never seen such a mouth piece, but I suspect they are much like the
>ones used on bassoons. As for how they change the tone of the sarrusophone,
>who knows? The sarrusophone tone is much "coarser" (for want of a better adje
>ctive) than the bassoon in the first place, so I can only imagine it might
>make it sound closer to a sax. Anyone out there have first hand experience?> Michel Jolivet, bass sarrusophonist:-)
Yes, I have two single reed mpcs for my bass sarrusophone: they came with the horn. One is clearly an alto sax mpc, modified for use with the sarrusophone by stuffing a wine cork in opening, and boring a bocal-sized hole through the cork. The other is clearly a more refined version: it resembles an alto sax mpc in size and shape, except that it ends in a blank wall where an alto mpc would normally taper to a large hole for the neck. Instead, this mpc has a small bocal-sized hole drilled off-center, which connects to the chamber. The chamber looks like it was carved by hand: it isn't polished. The mpc takes a standard alto sax reed and ligature.
Using either single reed mpc, the bass sarrusophone sounds much more like a saxophone. Approximately like a tenor sax, but transposed down an octave, or a bari transposed down a fifth. With a double reed, the instrument has a much smoother sound, more string-like. Also, it is much easier to play (a) in tune, and (b) reach the altissimo register using the double reed.
Grant
PS: Jack, Francis, shall we forward your replies as well?
GDG
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:18:40 -0800
From: Grant
Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Bechet?
> Now for some real speculation: Sidney Bechet, the famous jazz soprano sax
>player once recorded a piece called "Mandy" in ~1919 on sarrusophone, the
>only known example of jazz sarrusophone until perhaps this year. Many people
>have wondered why on earth he would have done such a thing. Well, it can
>easily be explained if we assume that he was playing a contrabass
>sarrusophone with a single reed mouthpiece! Clearly, he was a virtuoso jazz
>player on clarinet and soprano sax, so the mouthpiece would have been perfect
>for him - there would be no reason at all for him to learn a double reed
>embouchure. I will additionally speculate that he recorded the piece on a
>Conn EEb contrabass as they are the only company that I am aware of that
>supplied a single reed mouthpiece as an option. As for the sound, it is
Maybe I'm spoiled by years of bassoon playing, but the embouchure for contrabass sarrusophone doesn't strike me as particularly hard to pick up. The reed alone is about the size of a standard soprano sax mpc. Bechet also spent a fair portion of his life in Paris: I don't know if "Mandy, Make Up Your Mind" was recorded during that period or not (don't have any of my reference material handy here). If he played it in France, then my guess would be that he used a French-made horn. It would seem rather a large horn to lug all the way from the US, unless it was really a favorite, in which case I would think he'd have recorded on it more than once. My theory is that he either borrowed the horn for fun, or was dared to play it in public.
Grant
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:19:40 -0800
From: Grant
Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Single
reed mpcs and sarrusophones
From: JolivetDVM@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:17:01 -0500 (EST)
To: gdgreen@crl.com
Subject: Re: Single reed mpcs and sarrusophones
If you want, you can repost my 2 sarrusophone messages on the contrabass list. Did you receive my message about the bass sordune reed? It just will not work on my horn, so if you are interested in it, I would be happy to sell it to you for what I paid ( I used it a total of 20 seconds or so!)
More later, Michel
P.S. When I have more time I'll do a posting about a German wind instrument maker who I just met in Seattle (he's visiting). He has a collection of sarrusophones and plays with a group of people who are sarrusophonists in Germany. He is a friend of Thomas Kiefer (whom I recently wrote) and says he is probably the leading sarrusophone expert and owns all 9 sizes!
P.P.S. He thought my restored instrument was gorgeous:-)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:06:58,
-0500
From: KUUP84A@prodigy.com (MR MARK A
TRINKO)
Subject: Contra-fest great news!!!
Just got confirmed today that the Grand Finale Concert of the contrafest on Jan 8th will be held in the theater at the MGM Casino. This tremendous casino property in Las Vegas will give contra-players the most exposure to the publicn they have ever had in one setting.
Still not too late to register!
Mark
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 97 09:20:00 GMT
From: Francis
Firth <Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk>
Subject:
OctoContrabass & Octocontra-alto clarinets and their
Ranges.
Dear Hakan Lundberg,
I was interested to see forwarded to the contrabass list you August message to klarinet-l from which my subscription appeared to have lapsed while I was on holiday.
I have the scores of the three pieces by Terje Lerstad including the octocontrabass and the octocontra-alto clarinets.
In the Trio Sonata the octocontrabass descends to its written low C several times and the instrumentation at the beginning confirms that the sounding range is down to its bottom Bb.
In the clarinet choir piece Mirrors of Ebony the octocontrabass appears to be scored 3 octaves highr in the treble clef but again it descends to its written C (this time as the c 4 lines below the treble stave. The octocontra-alto descends to its low c at least twice on held notes, low d a couple of times, low Eb several times.
In De Profundis the amplified and echo-effected Octocontrabass clarinet descends to an exposed series of bottom written Cs while the octocontra-alto which takes over from it half way through the piece descends to its bottom D on more than one pccasion.
So, if you wish to play the literature written for the instrument you will need the extended low notes. Also according to Leon leblanc both instruments descended to their written low C. According to Terje Lerstad the notes were clear right down to the bottom of the range while James McGillivray writing in 1968 said that at first the lowest notes were difficult to distinguish, implying that after a while they were distinguishable.
Also it seems a pity if you are making this instrument not to extend it down to its low C after going to all that effort.
I must say that a wooden octocontrabass would be lovely and I only wish that I could envisage affording $30-40,000 to buy one. However all of us on the list would like to encourage your effort to make one.
Please keep us informed and when you have made one we would love to have a recording of it whether made by yourself of commercially.
So good luck with the project.
Yours,
Francis Firth
Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 97 09:30:00 GMT
From: Francis
Firth <Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk>
Subject: Contra
Recordings
Grant,
perhaps when you have your recordings ready you should approach Crystal Records as they seem expecially interested in wind recordings and have published Susan Nigro's 2 recordings.
Incidentally, the 2nd desc by her has a lot more jazzy stuff - Pink panther, Take Five, etc.
Perhaps Crystal might be interested in recording at this year's contra-fest?
What about it Mark?
Francis Firth
Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:12:49 -0600
From: Nancy
Golden (Music Survey) <MSURVEY@music.cmm.unt.edu>
Subject: Health & Performance Injuries
Musicians,
My name is Nancy Golden and I'm a Research Assistant at the University of North Texas (UNT). As a clarinet player, I have seen many fellow musicians struggle with various physical and psychological problems.
Our project, which is sponsored by NARAS (the Grammys) and the College of Music at UNT is an attempt to gain insight into these problems. We intend to use this information to educate musicians, doctors and educators. Currently, we are seeking information from all musicians, including students, amateurs and professionals. Please help us by taking the survey at:
http://www.scs.unt.edu/surveys/msurvey/index.html
Please email me if you have any questions. Thank you very much for your support.
Nancy M. Golden, M.M.E.
msurvey@music.unt.edu
End of contrabass-list V1 #22