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From: CrazyBassoonist
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:46:07 EDT
Subject: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass ClefThis discussion may have been posted before, but here it goes. I just
purchased the full score to Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, and the bass
clarinet parts are in both treble and bass clef, on the same stave. Now I
know how treble clef bass clarinet parts are transposed, the written note is
one octave plus a whole step higher than what it sounds (for b-flat bass
clar. anyway) But when it goes onto the bass stave, how is it done? The
same way, at concert pitch, a whole step higher?
~Mark~
Bassoon
Baritone Sax
(other instruments
that aren't quite so low)
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:13:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass ClefMark,
> This discussion may have been posted before, but here it goes. I just
> purchased the full score to Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, and the bass
> clarinet parts are in both treble and bass clef, on the same stave. Now I
> know how treble clef bass clarinet parts are transposed, the written note is
> one octave plus a whole step higher than what it sounds (for b-flat bass
> clar. anyway) But when it goes onto the bass stave, how is it done? The
> same way, at concert pitch, a whole step higher?I've seen it written two ways in Bass Clef. At Concert pitch (in C) & in Bb
Bass Clef (up one whote tone) [Strauss wrote for the Tenor Tuba (Euphonium)
in Bb Bass Clef]. While as a Brass player I rarely get to see authentic Bass
Clar parts (exc in my own arr), the best bet is ALWAYS to consult the score.
What key are the Bassoon, Flute & Celli written in? Go from there.Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
From: tag4
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [CB] Tuba Hiking the Appalachian Trail!Greetings, fellow contrabass enthusiasts.
You may remember an e-mail I sent several months ago about my
friend Scott Rimm-Hewitt, who was running the Boston Marathon with his
tuba strapped to his back (he ran it in 5:15 ! Not bad!).In case you were wondering what ever happened to him, he is now
in the process of hiking the ENTIRE Appalachian Trail from Maine down to
the Carolinas with his trusty tuba as his companion. This 2200 mile trek
is grueling enough without a 30 pound tuba weighing you down, so you
might imagine what a difficult task this is. Scott's motivations for the
hike are many, but include supporting the arts, educating the public
about the tuba and music (most people think his Besson E-flat is a
trombone or trumpet), and also to be the first person EVER to hike the
entire A.T. with a tuba.If you're mildly curious, I encourage you to check out the web
site his friend is maintaining for him (Scott sends him journal entries
and photos at regular intervals). The web site is:
http://lemming.uvm.edu/~dtepper/crazyhikersAt present, Scott has made it out of Maine and New Hampshire, and is
about to enter Vermont. Already word of the "Tubaman" has spread among
the hikers on the trail.Scott's original plans were to hike with his sister;
unfortunately, his sister had to withdraw, so he's now hiking solo.
Needless to say, a 6 month trek by yourself can get a little lonely. So
if you admire what he's doing and would like to send him words of
encouragement, please e-mail him (see his web site) or send him a letter
at one of the many drop locations listed on his site. And if any of you
live in the area of the Appalachian Trail and want to show your support,
head out to the trail (e-mail him first to arrange a meeting spot) and
play a duet with him! Or give him cookies! Or cheer him on! Or tell
your local newspapers about him and spread the word.Scott thanks you all for your support!
Cheers,
Tom Glickman
---------------------------------------------------------From: CrazyBassoonist
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:00:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass Clef<< I've seen it written two ways in Bass Clef. At Concert pitch (in C) & in Bb
Bass Clef (up one whote tone) [Strauss wrote for the Tenor Tuba (Euphonium)
in Bb Bass Clef]. While as a Brass player I rarely get to see authentic Bass
Clar parts (exc in my own arr), the best bet is ALWAYS to consult the score.
What key are the Bassoon, Flute & Celli written in? Go from there. >>
The score says it's Bass Clarinet in B-flat, however, half of the score is in
treble clef, and half is in bass. And, it's Stravisnky's Rite of Spring,
there are no key signatures and clues that might give it away might just be
planned dissonance. But I did find one part where celli, contrabasses, bass
trombone, both tubas, and both contrabassoons are all playing a low F#, and
the bass clarinet (in bass clef) is playing a written G#, so I believe that
this should be Bb bass clef. I just don't understand why *both* clefs are
used in the same piece. Oh well. Thanks for your help.~Mark~
Bassoon
Baritone Sax
(other instruments
that aren't quite so low)
---------------------------------------------------------From: Opusnandy
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:48:42 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass ClefThe bass clarinet part for the "Rite" is in Bb when it goes into bass clef,
but only written a whole tone higher than it sounds, rather than the octave
and a whole tone when it is written in treble.Did my Master's on the "Rite"
Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:49:51 -0500
From: Peter Koval
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass Clef
CrazyBassoonist wrote:
> << I've seen it written two ways in Bass Clef. At Concert pitch (in C) & in Bb
> Bass Clef (up one whote tone) [Strauss wrote for the Tenor Tuba (Euphonium)
> in Bb Bass Clef]. While as a Brass player I rarely get to see authentic Bass
> Clar parts (exc in my own arr), the best bet is ALWAYS to consult the score.
> What key are the Bassoon, Flute & Celli written in? Go from there. >>
>
> The score says it's Bass Clarinet in B-flat, however, half of the score is in
> treble clef, and half is in bass. And, it's Stravisnky's Rite of Spring,
> there are no key signatures and clues that might give it away might just be
> planned dissonance. But I did find one part where celli, contrabasses, bass
> trombone, both tubas, and both contrabassoons are all playing a low F#, and
> the bass clarinet (in bass clef) is playing a written G#, so I believe that
> this should be Bb bass clef. I just don't understand why *both* clefs are
> used in the same piece. Oh well. Thanks for your help.
>
> ~Mark~Where both bass and treble clef are used by Bb bass clarinet in one movement, the
actual pitch normally is one whole tone lower than written, in each clef. This is
a different usage from that where the whole part is written in the treble clef and
sounds one octave plus a tone lower.
Regards,
Peter Koval
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:12:52 EDT
From: CrazyBassoonist
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass Clef<<Where both bass and treble clef are used by Bb bass clarinet in one movement,the actual pitch normally is one whole tone lower than written, in each clef.
This is a different usage from that where the whole part is written in the treble clef and sounds one octave plus a tone lower.>>That would make sense; however, one passage has a written D above the treble staff, which, in that usage, would be an altissimo C on bass clarinet... well outside of the normal usage on the instrument. It would make more sense that the treble clef parts sound one octave and a whole step lower, and the bass clef parts just one whole step lower. Again I don't claim to know for sure, but I think that would work.
~Mark~
Bassoon
Baritone Sax
(other instruments
that aren't quite so low)
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sarah Cordish"
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:14:07 +0200
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone, Rothphone, and Reed ContrabassThis is a wonderful article.
Thanks, GrantSarah
---- Original Message -----
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Sarrusophone, Rothphone, and Reed Contrabass> A quick note: Gunther Joppig's excellent article on the history of
> the sarrusophone, rothophone, contrabassophone, and reed contrabass
> (amongst others) I have just discovered is available online at the
> convenient and easy-to-remember URL:
>http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/Journal/JNL17/JNL17.Joppig.Sarrus.html.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Grant---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:02:14 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Tuba Hiking the Appalachian Trail!At 10:12 PM -0400 8/15/00, tag4 wrote:
> he is now
>in the process of hiking the ENTIRE Appalachian Trail from Maine down to
>the Carolinas with his trusty tuba as his companion.No he isn't. He may *think* he is, but when he gets to those lakes
in Maine where you have to walk thru chest-high water, he'll either
take the tuba off his back or ruin it.And I don't think he'll have much luck with the felsenmeers in PA either.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:13:45 -0800
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass Clarinet & Bass ClefAt 11:49 PM -0500 8/15/00, Peter Koval wrote:
>Where both bass and treble clef are used by Bb bass clarinet in one movement, the
>actual pitch normally is one whole tone lower than written, in each clef. This is
>a different usage from that where the whole part is written in the treble clef and
>sounds one octave plus a tone lower.There has been so much misinformation spread on this thread that I
feel the need to confirm that this is indeed the correct answer.
There are two systems of bass clarinet notation, German and French.
If the bass clef appears *anywhere* in the part, and the part is
transposed, it is in German notation and sounds a major second below
the written pitch in either clef. You will see this in many, many,
many German scores and in those from other Central and Eastern
European countries as well. The rest of the world uses the French
system, where everything is in the treble clef and sounds a ninth
down.The same 2 systems, BTW, apply to the contabass and contra-alto
clarinets, except that everything transposes an additional octave
down in both systems.The basset horn, on the other hand, behaves like the French horn:
treble down a fifth, bass up a fourth; then after WWI both clefs down
a fifth.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Presshttp://www.netcom.com/~kallisti
Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:29:13 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Tuba Hiking the Appalachian Trail!In a message dated 8/16/00 10:00:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kallisti writes:
<< At 10:12 PM -0400 8/15/00, tag4 wrote:
> he is now
>in the process of hiking the ENTIRE Appalachian Trail from Maine down to
>the Carolinas with his trusty tuba as his companion.
No he isn't. He may *think* he is, but when he gets to those lakes
in Maine where you have to walk thru chest-high water, he'll either
take the tuba off his back or ruin it. >>
Sounds to me like a good cleaning! Or are there lots of rocks? I've
considered immersing my tuba in a fresh water lake for a good soaking, but
since it was a swimming area, I thought twice about the pollution it would
create. He'll need to give it a nice towel down afterwards anyway. How would
you ruin it? I can't imagine he'll be toting a hard case, so that's nothing
to worry about there. Anyway, apparently he's left Maine already. Let's drop
him a couple of emails and find out! I'm sure he can use the support of
knowing the Contrabass list is watching his progress!
Cheers!
Heliconman
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