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Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:01:07 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comNobody's mentioned the one factor that probably makes more difference in
sound than the bore shape: the mouthpiece. ALL upper brass mouthpieces
were deeper than most that are used today. (The Bach #1C mouthpiece,
considered cavernous by many players today, was Vincent Bach's own favorite
to play on.)And conversely, weren't sackbut mouthpieces incredibly shallow?
I seem to recall that cornet mouthpieces were supposed to be
relatively funnel-shaped, while trumpet mouthpieces were cup-shaped:
is this still the case, or does everyone use the same mpc these days?Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: LeliaLoban@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:01:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Why did the sarrusophone become unpopular?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comMichel Jolivet wrote,
> We can all lament these circumstances but that will not change them. The
sarrusophone remains a facinating double reed instrument which was developed
for a specific reason; they are neat to look at and played well they are well
worth listening to, but their heyday has passed and they never had even then
and never will have the popularity of the saxophone, clarinet, bassoon etc.
The nice thing is that people are still interested in them and have kept
them alive. Because of the internet, those of us who like arcane instruments
can get together and discuss them and learn from each other's experience.>Never can tell what might happen. A few diehards lamented the demise of the
"obsolete" harpsichord, too, until Wanda Landowska came along early in the
20th century. The harpsichord had the advantage of huge popularity in its
past, with plenty of repertory, yet it had gone extinct to such an extent
that she couldn't buy one or even find one to rent in playable condition.
She hired a piano maker to replicate a museum harpsichord for her. Now,
largely thanks to her revival of the instrument, harpsichords have become so
popular that people can make their own from kits, or buy a reasonably-priced
digital keyboard with decent harpsichord stops. Maybe if people like you and
Grant Green keep rousing the sarrusophone, a great new composer will start
writing for the instrument and it'll come lumbering out of hibernation and
stay awake for good.Lelia
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Anthony Braxton bass sax
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHey I've got a question:
I saw a picture in THE SAX AND BRASS BOOK (Paul, you
contributed to this book, and you probably know about
it.) The picture showed Anthony Braxton with a bass
saxophone and said "Braxton makes a point of playing
all the saxophones." BUT... the instrument he was
holding did not look anything like a bass sax. First
of all, it looked like a brass straight contrabass
clarinet. The neck of the instrument came way up, then
way down again and then forward to hold the
mouthpiece. Also, it was a straight neck, and it
didn't have the circular coil that bari and bass saxes
have up on top. Also, the horn overall was WAY too big
to be a bass sax. It looked as I said like a
contrabass clarinet made of brass.If you have this Sax and Brass book, I'd really like
you to look at that page (look up Braxton in the
index) and tell me what's up with this horn!!!! Paul
Cohen if you're listening, please help me!!
-Adam
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:36:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: merlinw@netcom.ca
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn 10/04/99 16:01:07 you wrote:
>I seem to recall that cornet mouthpieces were supposed to be
>relatively funnel-shaped, while trumpet mouthpieces were cup-shaped:
>is this still the case, or does everyone use the same mpc these days?I have an article somewhere in a copy of The Instrumentalist that discusses the cornet m/p in great detail. The writer even went so far as to do a blindfold test comparing trumpets and cornets played with C cup mouthpieces and old style funnel shaped cornet cups. His results showed the m/p to be the crucial factor. He even took the funnel-type m/p and used it on a trumpet (with an adapter). This was identified as the cornet sound more than an actual cornet played with a C cup.
Merlin Williams
merlinw@netcom.ca
http://www.netcom.ca/~merlinw
A member of the Saxring and the Duke Ellington Ring.
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:31:49 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comJohn & all,
> >In other words, the "modern"
> >cornet, is a cross between the modern Trumpet & the modern Flugel.
> >Note I typed "modern". The true cornet was closer to the modern flugelhorn.
> >But the true cornet hasn't been made since the time of Sousa.
>
> Nobody's mentioned the one factor that probably makes more difference in
> sound than the bore shape: the mouthpiece. ALL upper brass mouthpieces
> were deeper than most that are used today. (The Bach #1C mouthpiece,
> considered cavernous by many players today, was Vincent Bach's own favorite
> to play on.)
>
> But comparing the trumpet and cornet mouthpieces at the turn of the 20th
> century shows that the cornet mouthpieces were very deep--not like a horn
> mouthpiece, but deeper even that the standard modern flugelhorn mouthpiece.
> And this was the mouthpiece used by Herbert L. Clarke and all the other
> great cornet virtuosos. (Very possibly it was used not just for its tone
> quality but for added flexibility--at least those guys played with enormous
> flexibility.)
>
> Since those days have died out here in the U.S., I'm curious whether these
> differences still exist in the British Brass Band instruments. Certainly
> their continued use of the solo Eb cornet is something that never caught on
> in the U.S.--and therefore never caught on with U.S. band composers and
> arrangers.
>
Very true.
When I posted the above I also added that my "definition" was an
oversimplification. The toal amount of differences could fill a textbook, &
most internet list readers would probably delete a long treatise, then three
months later, post the same original question. I just simplified with the
most obvious reason.BTW, there are many British Style Brass Bands now in the US, & they use the
standard British Brass instrumentation, including the Eb Cornet.> Tom also asked:
>
> >Just curious. Do you know anyone who ever bought a musical instrument from
> >Sears?
>
> Hey! When you can choose from "Good," "Better," and "Best," how can you go
> wrong!!
>hahahahahah I guess so! :-)
Tom
(owner of NO Sears Trombones)
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:35:26 -0400
From: Dave Robinson <jazzteachr@sysnet.net>
Subject: Re: Woodwind with Valves
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comDetails please!
Thanks
DRFrancis Firth wrote:
> On one of his albums the tuba player Pinguin Moschner has put a reed on his
> Tuba
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Anthony Braxton bass sax
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:13:43 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAdam,
>
> I saw a picture in THE SAX AND BRASS BOOK (Paul, you
> contributed to this book, and you probably know about
> it.) The picture showed Anthony Braxton with a bass
> saxophone and said "Braxton makes a point of playing
> all the saxophones." BUT... the instrument he was
> holding did not look anything like a bass sax. First
> of all, it looked like a brass straight contrabass
> clarinet. The neck of the instrument came way up, then
> way down again and then forward to hold the
> mouthpiece. Also, it was a straight neck, and it
> didn't have the circular coil that bari and bass saxes
> have up on top. Also, the horn overall was WAY too big
> to be a bass sax. It looked as I said like a
> contrabass clarinet made of brass.I don't have this book, but isn't that a Contrabass Sax he's playing?
I've seen the picture (tho not in the book).Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 00:20:38 -0400
From: jim and joyce <lande@erols.com>
Subject: Adam....
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Adam wrote:>>...It is simply that our band has an overabundance of bad sax players.
...
>> I live in a town where the "articles" in Hustler
>> magazine are considered to be fine literatureWhich explains what students are doing instead of practicing.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "David Neubauer" <dnmagic@earthlink.net>
Subject: Hoffnung
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:42:27 -0700
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comJust got back from tour and saw the Hoffnung mentions. Hope this
isn't too late.I have the:
The Hoffnung Music Festival Concert (1956) LP & CD
The Hoffnung Interplanetary Music Festival (1958) LP & CD
The Hoffnung Astronautical Music Festival (1961) LP & CD
The Hoffnung Festival of Music (1988) CD onlyand all the books and cartoons. As you can tell, I'm a big fan and
can't recommend them highly enough. Annetta (Gerard's widow) is a
sweetheart, and have a delightful cartoon of the orchestra that he
drew (and she signed for me). If you want to laugh, get these!David Neubauer
www.dnmagic.comOriginal message
>Paxman sounds familiar from a previous email. I think this could be the EEb
>of the Hoffnung Festival fame. Anyone own any LPs of these festivals??
>Cheers!
>Heliconman@aol.com
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:13:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Hoffnung
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 10/05/1999 10:47:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dnmagic@earthlink.net writes:> Just got back from tour and saw the Hoffnung mentions. Hope this
> isn't too late.
>
> I have the:
> The Hoffnung Music Festival Concert (1956) LP & CD
> The Hoffnung Interplanetary Music Festival (1958) LP & CD
> The Hoffnung Astronautical Music Festival (1961) LP & CD
> The Hoffnung Festival of Music (1988) CD only
>
> and all the books and cartoons. As you can tell, I'm a big fan and
> can't recommend them highly enough. Annetta (Gerard's widow) is a
> sweetheart, and have a delightful cartoon of the orchestra that he
> drew (and she signed for me). If you want to laugh, get these!
>
> David Neubauer
> www.dnmagic.com
>
Don't know if I mentioned that CDs of the Hoffnung Festivals are currently
available from the Official Gerard Hoffnung Website. The URL is http://www.musicweb.force9.co.uk/music/hoffnung/index.htm.
Lots of his cartoons and photos of him and his tuba. Wouldn't you just LOVE
to know where this tuba is now?!!
Cheers!
Heliconman@aol.com
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:33:57 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIs there a reference (preferably on-line) that lists the "standard British
brass band instrumentation" that you've-all been mentioning?Aaron J. Rabushka
thinking that perhaps "Craftsman Sackbuts" sounds snappier that "Sears
Trombones"
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:38:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
In a message dated 10/05/1999 2:25:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
arabushk@cowtown.net writes:> Is there a reference (preferably on-line) that lists the "standard British
> brass band instrumentation" that you've-all been mentioning?
>
I was on a British brass band mailing list for a short while. The traffic was
so heavy that I had to sign off it. I'm sure you can get your question
answered there. Come to think of it, you might get your answer from your
local Salvation Army band. They seem to be largely British style arrangements.
Cheers!
Heliconman---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Cylindrical brass
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:10:26 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAaron,
> Is there a reference (preferably on-line) that lists the "standard British
> brass band instrumentation" that you've-all been mentioning?
>Easy enough to type up:
1-Eb Cornet
4-1st Bb Cornets (2 labeled as Solo), parts can be unison or split 2, 3 or 4 ways)
2-2nd Bb Cornets
2 3rd Bb Cornets
1-Bb Flugelhorn
1-Solo Eb Horn (callec Alto in US, Tenor Hn in England)
1-1st Eb Horn
1-2nd-Eb Horn
1-1st Bb Baritone Hn
1-2nd Bb Baritone Horn
2-Euphonium (part divides in places)
1-1st Bb Tenor Trombone
1-2nd Bb Tenor Trombone
1-Bass Trombone
2-Eb Tubas
2-BBb Tubas
1-Timpani
1-Kit (Drum set)
1-Percussion (may be 1 or 2 players)The Timpani is always in Bass Clef except in the score, where it is
sometimes in Bb Treble Clef.
The Bass Trombone is in Bass clef 90% of the time, occassionally in Bb Treble Clef
The 2 Tenor Trombones are in Bb Treble Clef 98.9% of the time, occassionally in Tenor Clef.
The Eb Cornet ("Soprano" in UK, sometimes called "Sopranino" in US),
3 Eb Horns & both Eb Tubas are written in Eb Treble Clef.
All of the Cornets, the Flugel, both Baritones, both Euphonia, & both Bb
Tubas are written in Bb Treble Clef.
Mallets are in C Treble Clef.In Wind Ensembles & Concert Bands substitutes are often used, but in Brass Bands, they are not.
There is no substitution of Trumpet for Cornet, no substitution of Bar for Euph or vice versa.Hope this helps.
Tom
> Aaron J. Rabushka
> thinking that perhaps "Craftsman Sackbuts" sounds snappier that "Sears
> Trombones"
> arabushk@cowtown.net
> http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
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