Contrabass Digest |
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:53:25 -0700
From: "Timothy J. Tikker" <timjt@awod.com>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> Bechet's other tune: I saw it listed on a disc once, and I think I wrote it down... let me see if I can find it on file. never heard it, though...
- Tim Tikker
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:56:40 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Another CD...
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com*Octetto Tokyo-Berlin, "Music for 4 and 8 Bassoons" (1996, Music Alliance
AG, MA 96 12825) is a CD of ensemble works for bassoon quartet, and seven
bassoons + contrabassoon (and one with percussion). The tracks are:
- -Three Intermezzi for 7 bassoons and contrabassoon (Helmut Sadler)
- -Cherry Blossom Album (7+1) (Mari Miura)
- -Sonata for Bassoon Quartet (Ikuma Dan)
- -Four Aphorisms op. 44 (7+1) (Gisbert N=E4ther)
- -Bassoon Rhapsody op. 107 for Bassoon Quartet (Maki Ishii)
- -Tokyo-Berin (7+1 + perc)(Kurt Natusch)
- -Intruction and Scherzo capriccioso (7+1) (Michael St=F6ckigt)
A nice CD, generally pleasant listening: I've been listening to it all day.Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:22:25 +0000
From: Joel Palsson <joel@mmedia.is>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>
>
> My understanding is that the Selmer mpcs have a different bore than the
> Leblanc horns, and won't work well together.I got two mouthpieces with my Leblanc contra, a Leblanc and a Selmer D. In my
opinion the Selmer plays better and it fits the horn very well.> Regarding straps: the newer horns come with a neck strap, whose only
> function is to keep the horn from falling over. The strap ring is not
> positioned so that you can hang the horn around your neck and play it:
> instead, the entire weight of the horn is supported by the floor peg. The
> older models, however, have one or two rings, and can/could be played using
> just a neck strap.> My horn has two strap rings, but neither of them seems to be in the right place
> to balance the horn with a regular sax neck strap. I've seen Anthony Braxton
> play the cbcl with just a single neckstrap.Joel
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Unusual or low instruments in Pup Culture
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAdam
lokibassoon@yahoo.com
In "An Ideal Husband," the bass and contra clarinets can be heard on
and off throughout the movie, particularly at the beginning and end.In "Planet of the Apes" a bassoon can be heard playing several
terrifying low notes during the opening credits, and then again when
they find Stewart's rotting corpse in the bed. It can alsow be heard
when they see the scarecrows up on the hill.And, I might mention, in the Jackson Five recording of "Rockin'
Robin," a bass clarinet or it might be contra can be heard so
unbeliveably easily. it plays through the whole song.-Adam
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bret Newton" <jbnbsn99@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:17:36 PDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI have a rather strange question. I recently showed the score of my
symphony to a composition professor, and after taking a look at the massive
instrumentation, and I mean massive, he candidly asked, "Where are the
hecklephones and sarrusophones?" I was completly taken back by this
question and thought to myself, what if I did include these instruments. I
already had a bass oboe so I think I have taken care of the hecklephone. I
asked the bassoon professor there (Texas Tech) what he thought about the
sarrusophone. He said that it is a marvelous instrument that could add to
any ensemble and would be great in a junior high band where a low reed is
lacking. Any way, I just wanted to see what the list's oppinion on this
possible addition is.
Thanks,
Bret Newton
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:59:20 -0400
From: Gerald Corey <jerrylv@magi.com>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comTo Bret Newton, et al.. I think your composition teacher must have been pulling
your leg. I am both a Heckelphone player and the Music Director of a 20-year
old new music society in Ottawa, Canada, Espace Musique.. ready to launch a
millenium enterprise of inaugurating a Canada wide competition for new
orchestral scores. I do not expect any of the new works to be entered to
contain either Sarrusophone or Heckelphone parts to be played. Why not? Because
these instruments are too rare to be likely available even for a first
performance. It is much more likely that you would be able to find bass oboe,
as you have already included in your composition, Fleugel horn (many are used
by today's jazz trumpeters.. this is a live instrument with a beautiful tone
and readily available), contrabassoon, saxophone (from the entire family) and
Wagner tubins.. But to expect most institutions of high musical art to have
either Sarrusophones or Heckelphones at the ready for the next orchestral
compostion - I doubt this very much. I hope you will find more positve thinking
when you next show your score to a teacher or colleague. Sincerely, Gerald
Corey, Ottawa, Canada.Bret Newton wrote:
> I have a rather strange question. I recently showed the score of my
> symphony to a composition professor, and after taking a look at the massive
> instrumentation, and I mean massive, he candidly asked, "Where are the
> hecklephones and sarrusophones?" I was completly taken back by this
> question and thought to myself, what if I did include these instruments. I
> already had a bass oboe so I think I have taken care of the hecklephone. I
> asked the bassoon professor there (Texas Tech) what he thought about the
> sarrusophone. He said that it is a marvelous instrument that could add to
> any ensemble and would be great in a junior high band where a low reed is
> lacking. Any way, I just wanted to see what the list's oppinion on this
> possible addition is.
> Thanks,
> Bret Newton
--
MZ?
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:11:47 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comEven the mighty Indiana University cheated on the heckelphone in "The
Planets." Many orchestral composition contests stipulate a maximum
instrumentation, and I have never seen one that allows heckelphone.Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:30:44 -0400
From: Gerald Corey <jerrylv@magi.com>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHello all with interest in Heckelphone parts. I have only played bassoon
in Holst's "The Planets". Every instance that I have experienced (about
10 in all) has had the low oboe solo played by bass oboe, not
Heckelphone. I do not think Holst asks for Heckelphone, although I know
it is sometimes used for this composition. Anyone with actual knowledge
of the instrument requested by Gustav Holst, I would be interested to see
mentioned here. Thanks very much. Gerald CoreyAaron Rabushka wrote:
> Even the mighty Indiana University cheated on the heckelphone in "The
> Planets." Many orchestral composition contests stipulate a maximum
> instrumentation, and I have never seen one that allows heckelphone.
--
MZ?
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sarah Cordish" <cordish@internet-zahav.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:20:14 +0300
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Bret,
For sure, this composition professor is playing around with you. He
is saying it is too big but not encyclopedic. You have to decide if
it is a valid criticism. Maybe he didn't know you are a serious
student. The other bassoon professor is talking off the top of his
head and probably knowsnothing about compsing.Do you have a compostition teacher who cares about you? This is the
way forward.Good luck.
Sarah
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:42:15 -0400
From: Bill Welch <wwelch@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
I don't know about the model 340 BBb contra, but the folded model 352
EEb contra does not have a register hole (not sure what it is called) in
the LH first finger key.Bill > =
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:00:12 -0400
From: Bill Welch <wwelch@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
When I first started playing the folded LeBlanc contra-alto (couple of
years ago), I had trouble with the high B and the high C. After some
practice I got both notes, but the high C is still troublesome. And
there is absolutely nothing - not even a hint of a note - above high C
even though LeBlanc insists that normal fingerings work for the
alstissimo notes.
High C# and D I finger
> exactly as on soprano or bass clarinet. Above that, it helps to add RH3:
> this switches the octave vent from the upper vent to the lower vent, and
> makes the altissimo speak more easily. Also makes D# a little stuffy, but
> works well for E, F and F#. Above F#, the timbre really sags (at least for
> me).Last year J. Shouryu Nohe posted a message here also stating that the R3
fingering works for the wood Selmer contras. the metal LeBlanc contras,
and any other contra with a split register mechanism. But R3 doesn't
work for my folded LeBlanc contra-alto, which has a single automatic
register key according to LeBlanc (not sure what they mean by
"automatic" for this key).>
> >> What is a Selmer D mouthpiece and how did you make it fit the Leblanc
> >> horn?
>
> My understanding is that the Selmer mpcs have a different bore than the
> Leblanc horns, and won't work well together. Perhaps switching to a
> Leblanc or Woodwind mpc will help.I asked about the Selmer D mpc because because I haven't come across the
letter D before for a Selmer contra mpc. My contra came with a hard
rubber LeBlanc mpc that I replaced with the Woodwind plastic mpc (If I
remember correctly, you also bought the Woodwind mpc for your contra).
At the time I also had some email discussions with David Hite about
contra mouthpieces. He recommends using a Selmer Eb (not Bb) contra mpc
for the LeBlanc Eb and Bb contras. He refaces the Selmer mpc ($30) to
take bari sax reeds which, he says, give a better response and play
better in the high register. He compensates for the different bore sizes
either by adding cork to the tenon joint or just by winding string
around the cork. If I ever find a used Selmer Eb contra mpc for sale at
a reasonable price, I'm going to have David reface it for me.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Planets
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:59:25 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comBe it bass oboe or Heckelphone that Holst requested all he got in
Bloomington was a second English horn. The exposed lick in "Saturn" was
played on bass clarinet as it was in the St. Louis Symphony's recording.Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bret Newton" <jbnbsn99@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:00:34 PDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI completly understand that the composition professor was kidding, but with
the size of the composition that I am doing it would be just a drop in the
bucket if I added a sarrusophone or two. As for the other instruments:
contrabassoon-2, wagner tubas-4, flugelhorns-4 etc... This really isn't a
proformable work with a total of 350 proformers (possibly more), and most of
those in a large double choir. The point is I just want to write a
composition that pushes the limit of anything previously done before. One
might understand my ambition a little more if they knew that I am only 17,
and love the grandiosness of things. All i really want to know is if a
sarrusophone would make a valuable addition to an already oversized
composition.
Bret Newton_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:46:20 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>I completly understand that the composition professor was kidding, but with
>the size of the composition that I am doing it would be just a drop in the
>bucket if I added a sarrusophone or two. As for the other instruments:
>contrabassoon-2, wagner tubas-4, flugelhorns-4 etc... This really isn't a
>proformable work with a total of 350 proformers (possibly more), and most of
>those in a large double choir. The point is I just want to write a
>composition that pushes the limit of anything previously done before. One
>might understand my ambition a little more if they knew that I am only 17,
>and love the grandiosness of things. All i really want to know is if a
>sarrusophone would make a valuable addition to an already oversized
>composition.
>Bret NewtonCompared to Stravinski's "Rite of Spring", or most Mahler, this isn't
monstrously large. RoS calls for 2 contrabassoons, alto flute, and a host
of other less-common horns.But to answer the real question, yes! The sarrusophone family can be used
in full choir, as a contrast to the saxophones. They have a distinct
timbre as different from saxophones as trombones are from euphoniums. If
you really want to push the envelope, include a choir of sarrusophones,
SATBBsCb, and use it as a fifth woodwind section (after flutes, clarinets,
oboe/bassoons, and saxophones).Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Bret Newton" <jbnbsn99@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:18:20 PDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThanks for the positive advice. It is just a "little" larger than Mahler or
Stravinsky. I don't think I'll include the entire family, but it would be
nice if that was an option. To get some size of the orchestra at the
present I have a web site that details the symphony.
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/2493I think that I will put in the sarrusophones but only a bass and an eb
contra, and the part will say optional, like some of the parts in The
Planets (bass oboe and alto flute).
Bret Newton
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:24:45 -0400
From: FranÚois Villon <feodor@informaxinc.com>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comDear Bret,
Looks like you forgot to add bassethorn, Ab sopranino clarinet, soprano
trombone, Bb flute, Eb flute, Db piccolo, contrabass and octobass
flutes, etc. BTW, a quartet of rhotophones will certainly help to
balance tam-tam section. :-)Feodor
P.S. Can one buy 80 stave music paper?
Bret Newton wrote:
> Thanks for the positive advice. It is just a "little" larger than Mahler or
> Stravinsky. I don't think I'll include the entire family, but it would be
> nice if that was an option. To get some size of the orchestra at the
> present I have a web site that details the symphony.
> http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/2493
>
> I think that I will put in the sarrusophones but only a bass and an eb
> contra, and the part will say optional, like some of the parts in The
> Planets (bass oboe and alto flute).
> Bret Newton
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:54:28 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIf you're looking to outdo the sheer size of all work that has gone before
be sure to check out Havergal Brian's "Gothic" symphony with its 22 winds
and 55 brass for starters. He includes a lot of the "extra" instruments
(oboe d'amore, basset horn, contrabass clarinet (one of ten clarinets),
euphonium). The question of adding instruments to a score revolves around
what they can contribute--note that Strauss's "Sinfonia Domestica" sounds
every bit as effective without saxophones as it does with them. On the other
hand, Schoenberg's "Gurre Lieder" is a work that effectively exploits its
massive complement which almost requires two orchestras to pull off. Color
for its own sake can wear thin fast (e.g., Janacek's "Taras Bulba," which
features some wonderful orchestration but no cogency of progress to keep it
coherent).Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:43:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Phantom Tuba
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAfter forwarding the intriguing story, my friend Deef replies........
In a message dated 7/22/99 8:02:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobdeef@juno.com writes:
> That story of
> the phantom tuba (?) was amusing. My first guess was a slipping belt in
> the air-handling system on the roof. But something similar happened to
> me at my old house.
>
> I used to hear stange, eerie moaning sounds, on the stairs, and once it
> really chilled me, it was so frequent and loud! A real spooky sound!
> So I fed the data into the ole brain-pan, and did some troubleshooting.
> Soon I was next to the source of the sound as I could detect. The wind
> was gusty, and what I found was most curious: The maple tree in the front
> yard had a branch which had grown out over the steel-reinforced telephone
> line, which was about 30 feet long to the pole. With the bark stripped
> away at the critical place by friction, it had become a self-rosining bow
> of huge dimension, and was actually resting hard on the telephone line,
> the wall of the house acting as a diaphragm. A mammoth bass-viol, which
> played only when the wind was high!
> When I went outside and found my theory verified, I laughed for about
> two minutes! We had been mystified for months by this thing. It was
> with mixed feelings that I cut away the offending bough, (or bow?) the
> next day. End of ghost, and story.Reminds me of an old Boris Karloff radio drama called the Wailing Wall in
which a guy kills his nagging wife and bricks her up in the basement, then
starts hearing ghostly wails. After he burns the house down in fear, he finds
out it's a missing brick that the wind is blowing over that made the wailing
sound. Karloff always played roles that had a moral, no matter how bad the
character behaved. that was his CB conscience flute scaring him to death!
To: heliconman@aol.com
Subject: Yamaha sax YAS-23, and Mystery Tuba sounds
From: "Robert C. Defenderfer" <bobdeef@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:02:18 EDT[***snip]
Bla, bla. How's things going? I know you've been busy. That story of
the phantom tuba (?) was amusing. My first guess was a slipping belt in
the air-handling system on the roof. But something similar happened to
me at the house in Belmont.I used to hear stange, eerie moaning sounds, on the stairs, and once it
really chilled me, it was so frequent and loud! A real spooky sound!
So I fed the data into the ole brain-pan, and did some troubleshooting.
Soon I was next to the source of the sound as I could detect. The wind
was gusty, and what I found was most curious: The maple tree in the front
yard had a branch which had grown out over the steel-reinforced telephone
line, which was about 30 feet long to the pole. With the bark stripped
away at the critical place by friction, it had become a self-rosining bow
of huge dimension, and was actually resting hard on the telephone line,
the wall of the house acting as a diaphragm. A mammoth bass-viol, which
played only when the wind was high!
When I went outside and found my theory verified, I laughed for about
two minutes! We had been mystified for months by this thing. It was
with mixed feelings that I cut away the offending bough, (or bow?) the
next day. End of ghost, and story.Nice to have some cooler weather! eh? Finally I can sleep a little!
Talk about knuckle-dragging heat. Looks like we get another whack of it
on Saturday. Hmm... Ricky has A/C... I should make plans to be in the
area that evening! Maybe I can make a bank-shot and see a few other
friends.
cya,--deef
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Bret Newton" <jbnbsn99@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:00:34 PDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comTrust me, I know the Gothic Symphony well. I just got a CD of it a couple
of days age and absolutly love it. All of the extra winds like the contra
and sub-contra flutes are nice but I don't want to over do it (if you want
to believe that). As for the staff paper Finale works great and I can get a
180 staff page if i want to.
Bret Newton
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:27:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Pushing The Limits
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 7/22/99 1:00:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jbnbsn99@hotmail.com writes:> I completely understand that the composition professor was kidding, but with
> the size of the composition that I am doing it would be just a drop in the
> bucket if I added a sarrusophone or two. As for the other instruments:
> contrabassoon-2, wagner tubas-4, flugelhorns-4 etc... This really isn't a
> performable work with a total of 350 performers (possibly more), and most of
> those in a large double choir. The point is I just want to write a
> composition that pushes the limit of anything previously done before. One
> might understand my ambition a little more if they knew that I am only 17,
> and love the grandioseness of things. All I really want to know is if a
> sarrusophone would make a valuable addition to an already oversized
> composition.
> Bret Newton
>
I'm reading from an original "Programme of the National Peace Jubilee Concert
- First Day. Boston, Tuesday, June 15, 1869"......"The Orchestra for Symphony and Oratorio
Consists of 115 first violins, 100 second violins, 65 violoncellos, 65
violas, 85 double basses, 8 flutes, 8 clarinets, 8 oboes, 8 bassoons, 12
horns, 8 trumpets, 9 trombones, 3 tubas, 10 drums, total, 504."Mr. Gilmore continues!.....
The Grand Orchestra
Will be composed of the following instruments, in addition to above; 25
piccolos and flutes, 20 Eb clarinets, 50 Bb clarinets, 50 Eb cornets, 75 Bb
cornets, 75 Eb alto horns, 25 Bb tenor horns, 50 tenor trombones, 25 bass
trombones, 25 Bb baritones, 75 Eb bass tubas, 50 small drums, 25 bass drums,
10 cymbals, 10 triangles, total 1094."The violin obligato to Gounod's Ave Maria was played by all 200 first violinists.
My Country 'Tis of Thee and the Star Spangled Banner were performed by the
Chorus of 10,000 voices with Grand Orchestra, Pipe Organ, Military Band, Drum
Corps, Chiming of church bells from all over the city, and electrically fired
artillery. (By the way the coliseum was lit by gas lights, not electricity.)The Anvil Chorus from Il Trovatore adds to this assemblage 100 Boston Firemen
hammering out the anvil part on their own individual anvils!WHO'S GOT THE EAR PLUGS AND ASPIRIN????
The great bass drum if memory serves was in excess of 6 feet in diameter. The
grand piano and pipe organ were also the largest of their kind in the
country. Also rumors of a great triangle. All was housed in the country's
largest coliseum, the Boston Coliseum (which was destroyed within a year of
this performance) located in what is now called Copley Square.The founder of this event was Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore (1829-1892), author
of When Johnny Comes Marching Home and former proprietor of Madison Square
Garden (then known as Gilmore's Garden).By the way, he DOUBLED these numbers in 1872 for the World Peace Jubilee and
Music Festival.You'll need to push the limit a whole lot further yet and need a whole lotta
bucks to fund your own jubilee performance (New Year's 2001?)God Help You!
Heliconman@aol.com
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